Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Smash Up» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shinobi + Secret Volcano headquarter rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Daigotsu Iuchiban
msg tools
Hi!
First of all I am using the german Version of the game so I am not sure if my translations are correct.
So yesterday we played our first game with Science Fiction Double Feature and the following problem occurred:

On the Field was a Secret Volcano Headquarter (Cardtext: Before this Base scores every Player reveals the top card of his Deck. Play every Minion revealed.)
The Base broke during my opponents turn and I had a Shinobi in my hand.

When does the global effect of the headquarter occur? Can I play the Shinobi after I know which additional minions appear from the headquarters or do I have to play it before?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Heil
msg tools
The player whose turn it is decides what order things happen whenever there are multiple things that can happen at the same time. In this case, if it is your turn, you may choose to do the base's ability before deciding to play Shinobi, but if it is someone else's turn, they may force you to decide whether you have a SPECIAL to play before the base's ability activates.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
The Rulebook sorta says this:

Quote:

When a base has been chosen
to score, each player first gets
to use any Special abilities that
happen “before” the base scores.
If the total power on a base drops
below its breakpoint, you still
finish scoring the base.

*******
Me First!
If more than one player wants to
use a Special ability, start with
the current player and go around
the table clockwise until all
players pass in sequence (if you
pass and another player uses a
Special, you can then still choose
to use a Special of your own). If
your Special allows you to play
extra cards, you must play those
immediately or not at all.

I would personally apply this rule to it and say that in reaction to the Volcano Headquarter's "before a base scores" ability other players may then react and play their Special "before a base scores" cards. Of course this is not necessarily correct as obviously the Volcano Headquarter is technically not a "Special" so one could argue that this rule does not apply here.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Gameson
United Kingdom
Worcestershire
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
When 2 effects would happen at the same time like this, the current players turn would choose whether to do general Specials, or to trigger the base first...or at least that's how I read it.

Hope this helps, even a tad
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Tan
Philippines
Quezon City
Metro Manila
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
allstar64 wrote:
The Rulebook sorta says this:

Quote:

When a base has been chosen
to score, each player first gets
to use any Special abilities that
happen “before” the base scores.
If the total power on a base drops
below its breakpoint, you still
finish scoring the base.

*******
Me First!
If more than one player wants to
use a Special ability, start with
the current player and go around
the table clockwise until all
players pass in sequence (if you
pass and another player uses a
Special, you can then still choose
to use a Special of your own). If
your Special allows you to play
extra cards, you must play those
immediately or not at all.

I would personally apply this rule to it and say that in reaction to the Volcano Headquarter's "before a base scores" ability other players may then react and play their Special "before a base scores" cards. Of course this is not necessarily correct as obviously the Volcano Headquarter is technically not a "Special" so one could argue that this rule does not apply here.


From what the sequence of scoring a base is...

Quote:
1) You check to see if a base should be scored once the current player is done playing their normal cards (minion, action, and additionals generated). If there are none, continue on to the Draw Cards phase. (p4)
2) Once a base has been determined ready to score at this point, it will be scored (as long as it remains in play through the scoring). (p6)
3) Before determining the individual players strength at the base, you begin with the active player and give everyone a chance to play a Special that specifically indicate they should be played "before a base scores" or "prior to scoring a base" until everyone passes. (p6)
4) Once everyone is done playing Special cards, the base is scored. (p6) Now is the time to check for who gets first, second, and third places.
5) After the base is scored, any base abilities that trigger on scoring happen now, and other Special abilities may be used. These will specifically say "when" or "after" scoring a base. (p6)
6) The base, its minions, and anything else attached to this base go to their owners' respective discard piles. (This may trigger abilities, which you must resolve first before going to the next part of this step.) Replace the base with a new one.
7)Repeat step one


An argument can be made for the ability triggering on #2 but before #3, the window for cards like Shinobi to be played.

An argument can also be made that it should trigger on #3 along with all the other specials, but there would be a caveat: remember that there is no "stack," "instants," or "responding to abilities" in Smash Up. If the ability of Secret Volcano HQ works like the "at beginning of your turn" abilities of Sprout or Water Lily, it would immediately trigger, and players will have to resolve it before they can do any specials anyway.

I am inclined to side with "You won't be able to play Shinobi until after the ability of Secret Volcano Headquarters resolves," but this ultimately opens one general question: Can a player play minions/actions/specials/talents while there is an ability waiting to resolve? If the answer here is no, then the follow up question here would be this: Do abilities that trigger on [insert event here] trigger immediately when [event] happens, or do they wait for player/s to finish their input first? Answering these questions should lead to an answer for this main question, and perhaps a lot of other potential questions...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfred Spangler
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Seems pretty clear to me. Both cards say that their ability happens "before [a/this] base scores." That's the same time, so the current player makes the ruling. (Sorry Shinobi player, lol.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Gameson
United Kingdom
Worcestershire
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
That would be my reading of it too. Until we know/determine whether Specials or the base effects trigger first, then we can't/don't need to answer either of the above mentioned questions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.