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Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Exodus Expansion» Forums » Variants

Subject: Personal Goal Desperation rss

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Kenneth H
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Last night a player misunderstood the text on the Personal Goal card. He thought that if he did not reveal the card, that he would personally lose the game. That misconception actually decided the game, but gave us a fantastic idea to play with if we're ever bored with the way they normally work and looking for punishment.

Variant: Instead of losing resources for not fulfilling personal goals, any human player who still holds an unrevealed personal goal at the end of the game loses. If their team otherwise meets the conditions for victory, the team wins as normal, but the player loses.

Should this include players who also possess a Cylon loyalty card? Doing so certainly gives incentive to quickly revealing so you can drop that bomb on somebody else - not necessarily something to encourage more than it already is.

Aside from this being a, quite intentionally, harsh way to play, do you see any problems?

Sacrifice and Selfish aren't impossible for any given character to accomplish.
Self-Destructive is easy enough (especially with Daybreak), and Stand and Fight is probably okay (especially with CFB).
Both Use Caution and Devastation require you to be either Admiral, very compelling, or lucky.
Political Intrigue can happen, especially with Daybreak.
Acquire Power is a raw deal to somebody low on the lines of succession. President is relatively easy to grab with Daybreak. If people are feeling cooperative and playing with the CFB, then CAG can be passed to that person, but it's probably rare people will do that.

So, should we try playing this way, we might remove one or more of Acquire Power, Use Caution, and Devastation. Any other thoughts?
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Kwijiboe
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It depends on the person.

Personally, I'd fall on my own sword to help the humans win.

In those cases, the variant doesn't quite work. Which is why I think the designers made resource loss a penalty.

It does present an oddity however. Potentially, if all humans have a personal goal and the human team wins... Nobody wins.
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Kenneth H
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Kwijiboe wrote:
Personally, I'd fall on my own sword to help the humans win.

In those cases, the variant doesn't quite work.


Yeah, I wouldn't be able to help counting it as a moral victory myself. You make a fair point.

Still, it's something I might try if we're really feeling like humans have been winning a lot. Any other penalties you can think of?
 
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For those who need a reference....
Quote:
Sacrifice and Selfish aren't impossible for any given character to accomplish.
6+ Vipers are damaged or destroyed (-1 fuel)
May Discard 20 strength points of skill cards (-1 fuel)



Self-Destructive is easy enough (especially with Daybreak), and Stand and Fight is probably okay (especially with CFB).
Is in the Brig or Sickbay (-1 morale)
10 or more Raiders are on the Main game board (-1 population)



Both Use Caution and Devastation require you to be either Admiral, very compelling, or lucky.
Fleet has made a 1-distance jump (-1 population)
Admiral has no remaining nukes (-1 morale)


Political Intrigue can happen, especially with Daybreak.
President is in the Brig (-1 food)

Acquire Power is a raw deal to somebody low on the lines of succession. President is relatively easy to grab with Daybreak. If people are feeling cooperative and playing with the CFB, then CAG can be passed to that person, but it's probably rare people will do that.
Get 2 or more title cards at the same time (-1 food)

Since the penalty is harsh, you should at least get some reward for resolving them, like draw 2 skill cards of your choice.

Also, if someone doesn't have a prayer's chance in fulfilling their PG, they may decide to take everyone down with them.

Stand And Fight is helped 2 ways... CFB and Daybreak, as the Dradis Contacts can put out more Raiders before you know it.

Devastation's only savior for a non-admiral is getting that Mutiny card that removes them from the game.

The title ones are much easier if there's no more than 5 players. Should be quite doable with only 3p or 4p.


Kwijiboe wrote:
It depends on the person.

Personally, I'd fall on my own sword to help the humans win.

In those cases, the variant doesn't quite work. Which is why I think the designers made resource loss a penalty.

It does present an oddity however. Potentially, if all humans have a personal goal and the human team wins... Nobody wins.
Noble, but that does create meta-gaming issues. I've seen people fall on their sword using IN. I've seen people do this with Mutiny when as it turns out, they really would've been better off staying out of the Brig.
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Kwijiboe
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Flamethrower49 wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
Personally, I'd fall on my own sword to help the humans win.

In those cases, the variant doesn't quite work.


Yeah, I wouldn't be able to help counting it as a moral victory myself. You make a fair point.

Still, it's something I might try if we're really feeling like humans have been winning a lot. Any other penalties you can think of?


I really think Mutiny cards accomplish what Personal Goals set out to do. Both force humans to make sub-optimal plays to avoid certain consequences.

In theory, PGs gave hidden cylons a reason to play sub-optimally. Mutiny accomplishes this much much better. However, if a human has a PG at the beginning of the game, they cannot possibly be a cylon (unless Baltar).

Personally, I don't think Personal Goals have a place in the game.

However, I've thought about dealing 1 Personal Goal face up to each player. In other words, everyone knows one another's personal goals. This forces humans to play sub-optimally and provides cover for other Cylons to convince other humans to play sub-optimally (or play sub-optimally themselves).

Once a PG is resolved, you resolve them according to the official rules: discard the PG, and add 1YANC/draw 1 Loyalty card from the remaining loyalty deck.

If you want to create a sense of urgency for PGs, remove the resources listed on the PGs at the start of the game and add that resource back once the PG is completed. But, this might be too dangerous if, both Cylon players were to hold onto the 2 Fuel resource PGs. Hah.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
Flamethrower49 wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
Personally, I'd fall on my own sword to help the humans win.

In those cases, the variant doesn't quite work.


Yeah, I wouldn't be able to help counting it as a moral victory myself. You make a fair point.

Still, it's something I might try if we're really feeling like humans have been winning a lot. Any other penalties you can think of?


I really think Mutiny cards accomplish what Personal Goals set out to do. Both force humans to make sub-optimal plays to avoid certain consequences.

In theory, PGs gave hidden cylons a reason to play sub-optimally. Mutiny accomplishes this much much better. However, if a human has a PG at the beginning of the game, they cannot possibly be a cylon (unless Baltar).

Personally, I don't think Personal Goals have a place in the game.

However, I've thought about dealing 1 Personal Goal face up to each player. In other words, everyone knows one another's personal goals. This forces humans to play sub-optimally and provides cover for other Cylons to convince other humans to play sub-optimally (or play sub-optimally themselves).

Once a PG is resolved, you resolve them according to the official rules: discard the PG, and add 1YANC/draw 1 Loyalty card from the remaining loyalty deck.

If you want to create a sense of urgency for PGs, remove the resources listed on the PGs at the start of the game and add that resource back once the PG is completed. But, this might be too dangerous if, both Cylon players were to hold onto the 2 Fuel resource PGs. Hah.


I like keeping PGs in play since they give you the ability to become a revealed human. No other way to do that. Well, this only works at 7+ distance, but does create a nice "I told you so" pre-sleeper, even though all bets are off now that he gets a new Loyalty card immediately.

The one bad thing about Mutiny is it can spiral out of control and lose the game, despite any best efforts mounted, whereas PGs aren't too powerful, but have more leeway in ignoring them.

I take it the face up PG is in addition to another Loyalty card (face down)?
 
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Kwijiboe
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ackmondual wrote:
I take it the face up PG is in addition to another Loyalty card (face down)?


Correct. They are no longer "loyalty cards."

The Personal Goal cards are placed in their own "Personal Goal" deck separate from the other Loyalty cards.

Alternatively, they can be included in the loyalty deck and function similarly to the Mutineer card. Reveal the card immediately and draw 1 more Loyalty card. (This would not be as punishing however: since, its unlikely more than 5 PGs will come out).

You would follow Exodus' loyalty card rules: Shuffle 1 YANC into the loyalty deck and draw 1 loyalty card.
 
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Rob Neuhaus
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You can just execute yourself to get rid of them.
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Kwijiboe
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Thought we were fixing Personal Goals here and not the entire Exodus expansion.

Slow your roll!
 
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Kenneth H
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This didn't start as an attempt to "fix" personal goals, though perhaps it's becoming one. I do agree they don't work as advertised, but I don't think they are without merit. I typically just ignore them and focus on keeping the resource in question high.
 
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Kenneth H
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rrenaud wrote:
You can just execute yourself to get rid of them.


This is certainly a solution to the issue of unsolvable Personal Goals in the variant I proposed in the first post.
 
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Rodney Jacobson
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I've been wanting to try something similar to this, but not quite so harsh.

My idea was to say that you personally lose the game if you hold a personal goal at the end of the game and the resource on the PG is 2 or lower.
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Opti77 wrote:
I've been wanting to try something similar to this, but not quite so harsh.

My idea was to say that you personally lose the game if you hold a personal goal at the end of the game and the resource on the PG is 2 or lower.
You'd be blindsided if you got a PG towards the end and couldn't do anything about it, but otherwise, sometimes luck can run that way.
 
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