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Subject: Joining quests and activation rss

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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Rules state that during quest resolution, other players can activate their characters *to move, in order to join the quest*.

Later, we read:

Quote:
"After the acting player has finished telling his part of the story, starting with the player on his left and proceeding clockwise, all other players *with a character present in the same space as the quest* have the opportunity to contribute to the story, even if the character has already been activated".


Ok, fair enough, even though that last bit is a little weird - as it's obvious that other characters were activated in order to move to that place and join the quest. Unless, obviously, what this rule is trying to say, is that characters that were already there before, can join in and thus the distinction between already activated and not yet activated makes sense (maybe they didn't move this turn yet).

Which would make perfect sense, but few paragraphs later:

Quote:
"If a player activated one of his characters during step 2, that is the only one of his characters that can join the quest, even if he has other characters in the space with the ongoing quest token."


which leaves me completely confused. So if a charater was already in a place of quest, he/she cannot join? It would make 0 sense story wise. Can other player then activate his character in the quest's space and decide not to move at all (and yet join the quest?). Or is that rule trying to say, that you either join in with characters you already have there, or you join in with characters that decided to move there (even though the latter still feels kinda bizarre), but not both.

Halp.

 
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Kevin Outlaw
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rattkin wrote:
Rules state that during quest resolution, other players can activate their characters *to move, in order to join the quest*.

Later, we read:

Quote:
"After the acting player has finished telling his part of the story, starting with the player on his left and proceeding clockwise, all other players *with a character present in the same space as the quest* have the opportunity to contribute to the story, even if the character has already been activated".


Ok, fair enough, even though that last bit is a little weird - as it's obvious that other characters were activated in order to move to that place and join the quest. Unless, obviously, what this rule is trying to say, is that characters that were already there before, can join in and thus the distinction between already activated and not yet activated makes sense (maybe they didn't move this turn yet).

Which would make perfect sense, but few paragraphs later:

Quote:
"If a player activated one of his characters during step 2, that is the only one of his characters that can join the quest, even if he has other characters in the space with the ongoing quest token."


which leaves me completely confused. So if a charater was already in a place of quest, he/she cannot join? It would make 0 sense story wise. Can other player then activate his character in the quest's space and decide not to move at all (and yet join the quest?). Or is that rule trying to say, that you either join in with characters you already have there, or you join in with characters that decided to move there (even though the latter still feels kinda bizarre), but not both.

Halp.



If I have a character at a quest location, I can have that character get involved in the quest, even if he has already been activated in a previous turn.

However, if I also activated a character and moved that character to the quest location in response to someone starting the quest (and therefore have two characters at the location), I HAVE to use the one I activated and moved rather than the one who was already there (or else use neither of them).

Edit: For a bit of clarity (hopefully).
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Ok, so basically, my last sentence from previous post. But why is it done this way? Its counter intuitive.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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rattkin wrote:
Ok, so basically, my last sentence from previous post. But why is it done this way? Its counter intuitive.


The rule is basically that you can only have one of your characters interrupt the quest. If you have several characters on the relevant space, you can pick any of them, but if you specifically activated a character to move them onto the space, then you can only use that character.

The reason for this is partly for story, and partly for risk/reward.

If you activate a character, you get to draw cards. You then introduce that character into the story. Thematically, that character then needs to be part of the story. You can't just say, "The Wolf smelled Dorothy in the Park, so headed over to see what was going on... and then decided not to get involved."

From a risk/reward perspective, you are gaining three cards, but you risk facing a trap or battle when you arrive at the location. The trap will sap cards, and may result in you being incapacitated and therefore unable to take part in the quest. If you use a character who is already at the location, you do not get the extra cards, but you do not have to face a trap or battle.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:

The rule is basically that you can only have one of your characters interrupt the quest. If you have several characters on the relevant space, you can pick any of them, but if you specifically activated a character to move them onto the space, then you can only use that character.


Supposedly I already have 2 characters in quest space, none of them activated. Still, only one of them can join the quest, not both? Couldn't the manual say just that - "only one character can join the quest, either one of these already there, or one that will travel to the place" instead of this mumbo-jumbo?

Quote:

From a risk/reward perspective, you are gaining three cards, but you risk facing a trap or battle when you arrive at the location. The trap will sap cards, and may result in you being incapacitated and therefore unable to take part in the quest. If you use a character who is already at the location, you do not get the extra cards, but you do not have to face a trap or battle.


Ok, it makes sense. But what if I use a character to join the quest who is already there? Does this constitute as activation or not?
 
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rattkin wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:

The rule is basically that you can only have one of your characters interrupt the quest. If you have several characters on the relevant space, you can pick any of them, but if you specifically activated a character to move them onto the space, then you can only use that character.


Supposedly I already have 2 characters in quest space, none of them activated. Still, only one of them can join the quest, not both? Couldn't the manual say just that - "only one character can join the quest, either one of these already there, or one that will travel to the place" instead of this mumbo-jumbo?

Quote:

From a risk/reward perspective, you are gaining three cards, but you risk facing a trap or battle when you arrive at the location. The trap will sap cards, and may result in you being incapacitated and therefore unable to take part in the quest. If you use a character who is already at the location, you do not get the extra cards, but you do not have to face a trap or battle.


Ok, it makes sense. But what if I use a character to join the quest who is already there? Does this constitute as activation or not?


I don't think there is any "mumbo jumbo" here. The rules are pretty clear:

Each player gets a chance to activate a character to move to the quest location. During quest resolution, everyone with a character present can use ONE of their characters to take part in the quest. If a player activated and moved a character, that player is only allowed to use the activated character in the quest.

Joining the quest is not an activation, and does not require you to flip a character card.

If I have a character in a quest location, and it has already been activated, I can still use it in the quest.

If I have a character in a quest location and that character has not activated, I have the option to activate that character at the point a player starts the quest. When I do this, I clip the character card to activated and draw three cards. The character does not need to move as he is already in the right place. When it gets to the quest resolution step, I could use the activated character to get involved in the quest. If I had more than one character present, I could ONLY use the one I activated.

Hope I'm making that clear.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Thanks for all the answers, this is much appreciated. It would seem that having a not-activated character in a quest space is a nice boost for joining in, because you get 3 more cards and don't have to fight anyone (as you don't move). Activating other characters that are further from the quest is "wasting" cards, but might be the only option in certain cases, depending if players fight over memories or just the cards played.
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rattkin wrote:
Thanks for all the answers, this is much appreciated. It would seem that having a not-activated character in a quest space is a nice boost for joining in, because you get 3 more cards and don't have to fight anyone (as you don't move). Activating other characters that are further from the quest is "wasting" cards, but might be the only option in certain cases, depending if players fight over memories or just the cards played.


No problem.

One of the reasons the character who activates is the only one who can intervene is to stop card-spamming.

For example, the following move is illegal thanks to the way the rules work: Dorothy wants to complete a quest, and the White Rabbit is present. I intend to use the White Rabbit to intervene, but I am low on cards, so I activate the Wolf to get three cards, don't move him, and use the White Rabbit instead on the quest.


By the way: If you are not playing with character powers and hidden objectives, I recommend adding them. They add a few wrinkles, make card-counting more difficult, and make the selection of characters for quests and quest interventions more important.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Special powers and character powers makes sense, but I'm not sure what hidden objectives bring into the game? Is it a mechanism to speed up the end of the game (quickly spam 3 objectives slots)? Does it actually work? I understand that these can create a tug-of-war, where both factions can replace objectives quests with their own objectives quests or standard ones, but, in the long run, isn't it exactly the same as the base game?

What are your experiences?
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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rattkin wrote:
Special powers and character powers makes sense, but I'm not sure what hidden objectives bring into the game? Is it a mechanism to speed up the end of the game (quickly spam 3 objectives slots)? Does it actually work? I understand that these can create a tug-of-war, where both factions can replace objectives quests with their own objectives quests or standard ones, but, in the long run, isn't it exactly the same as the base game?

What are your experiences?


Admittedly, powers and skills are the more interesting modules. I have only had the game a month, so I am by no means an expert, but objectives are just a nice little addition that may be able to give you a nudge to victory at just the right time.

It is something to get players thinking - Why is Pinocchio just waiting there? Does he want to spring a trap to get an objective?

Also, some of the combat missions encourage people to be a bit more aggressive (for example, combining Armed Retaliation with The Reward gets the player two objectives for a single action).

And, of course, the new memory moves the bookmark, and it is always fun to see how your opponents introduce your objective success into the story. That is their main strength for me - creating new story ideas and options.

One thing: Objective memories MUST go on an empty objective slot. They can only be overwritten by quest memories, and not by other objectives, I believe.
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
rattkin wrote:
Special powers and character powers makes sense, but I'm not sure what hidden objectives bring into the game? Is it a mechanism to speed up the end of the game (quickly spam 3 objectives slots)? Does it actually work? I understand that these can create a tug-of-war, where both factions can replace objectives quests with their own objectives quests or standard ones, but, in the long run, isn't it exactly the same as the base game?

What are your experiences?


Admittedly, powers and skills are the more interesting modules. I have only had the game a month, so I am by no means an expert, but objectives are just a nice little addition that may be able to give you a nudge to victory at just the right time.

It is something to get players thinking - Why is Pinocchio just waiting there? Does he want to spring a trap to get an objective?

Also, some of the combat missions encourage people to be a bit more aggressive (for example, combining Armed Retaliation with The Reward gets the player two objectives for a single action).

And, of course, the new memory moves the bookmark, and it is always fun to see how your opponents introduce your objective success into the story. That is their main strength for me - creating new story ideas and options.

One thing: Objective memories MUST go on an empty objective slot. They can only be overwritten by quest memories, and not by other objectives, I believe.


Thanks for your answers. They are clever and deep. And yes: objectives can never overwrite a quest. Viceversa: quest can overwrite objectives
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Jocularis wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
rattkin wrote:
Special powers and character powers makes sense, but I'm not sure what hidden objectives bring into the game? Is it a mechanism to speed up the end of the game (quickly spam 3 objectives slots)? Does it actually work? I understand that these can create a tug-of-war, where both factions can replace objectives quests with their own objectives quests or standard ones, but, in the long run, isn't it exactly the same as the base game?

What are your experiences?


Admittedly, powers and skills are the more interesting modules. I have only had the game a month, so I am by no means an expert, but objectives are just a nice little addition that may be able to give you a nudge to victory at just the right time.

It is something to get players thinking - Why is Pinocchio just waiting there? Does he want to spring a trap to get an objective?

Also, some of the combat missions encourage people to be a bit more aggressive (for example, combining Armed Retaliation with The Reward gets the player two objectives for a single action).

And, of course, the new memory moves the bookmark, and it is always fun to see how your opponents introduce your objective success into the story. That is their main strength for me - creating new story ideas and options.

One thing: Objective memories MUST go on an empty objective slot. They can only be overwritten by quest memories, and not by other objectives, I believe.


Thanks for your answers. They are clever and deep. And yes: objectives can never overwrite a quest. Viceversa: quest can overwrite objectives


Thank you. I am pretty much in love with this game, and the more I think about it, the more it offers up for me to enjoy. I hope there are more cards and characters in the future (alongside a "conversion kit" for people like me who do not have the FFG edition and therefore have the different style of tokens and character cards. Although, having said that, Grumpy will always be Grumpy to me, regardless of the name on the card.)
 
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Have been reading the rules on the geek. Very intriguing premise and content, however, also quite confusing. I understand that the story is the most important part of the game, but I can see making several house rules if I do purchase it. Beautiful components!
 
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gslouch wrote:
Have been reading the rules on the geek. Very intriguing premise and content, however, also quite confusing. I understand that the story is the most important part of the game, but I can see making several house rules if I do purchase it. Beautiful components!


It seems more confusing than it really is, and this thread sounds more intimidating than it really is.

I have the original edition which (even the publishers will probably admit) doesn't have the best English language rulebook, yet I was still able to get going pretty quickly, and once you are playing, everything falls into place quite neatly.

Of course, the ultimate aim is to get creative and tell a fun story, so I don't see any reason not to house rule if you are going to get more enjoyment.
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Thanks! Yea, I think I just need to jump in and give it a whirl. Really like the idea of the factions and the characters are great too.
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gslouch wrote:
Thanks! Yea, I think I just need to jump in and give it a whirl. Really like the idea of the factions and the characters are great too.


It's a lovely world to explore, and the rich background makes it a bit easier for anyone who isn't used to storytelling games, or people who find it a bit more difficult to come up with a starting point for an idea, because they already have the characters and the setting to work with.
 
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