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Subject: $120 for SoN base game on KS?? rss

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The all-seeing, all-knowing, all-trollin' Mike Hutton
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Is it me, or does that sound just a little high?
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Jason Koskey
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It is not just you.....is it worth that price....perhaps for many (the campaign is successful).....for me personally....NO.

I have wanted to get into this game/system since its announcement. Decided to sit out on first kickstarter due to high cost and now the most recent kickstarter seem to be a money pit as well.... It seems there are some uncertainty about the second wave delivery date from first campaign but I will leave it at that since I know nothing about it beyond that.

The problem FOR ME is I am an all or nothing kind of guy when I buy into a new system like this... To do that know would be over $700 for first KS and the newest KS with all add-ons, extras..and let's nto forget a top shipping.......yikes....and that is if you can find teh first kickstarter......there are a ton of games I could buy for that price...

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Nick Jones
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It's stupidly expensive.... and unfortunately my absolute favorite game at the moment.

Honestly though I don't think it's that far off course for kickstarters. I cancelled my zombicide season 3 pledge to kickstart SoN. Picked up several expansions as well. Came out to about what I was going to pay for Zombicide.

More than anything I just hate what kickstarter has done to the boardgame world. If a game like HoN could only exist with kickstarter, well then I guess I'm ok with it. But the idea that I can buy the base game on Amazon for $45 and never have a shot at ANY of the exclusives unless I paid $150 6 months in advance is pretty ridiculous.

For the record I think the estimate of $700 is pretty high, but yes, if you HAVE to have every exclusive you'll end up spending quite a bit of cash to run them down post kickstarter.

If you're intrigued at all by the series though you should pick up the base set. It's truly a fantastic game and worth every penny.
 
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Mike Martin
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Yeah, it's a bit high, for a purchase, but I think the KS extra's make it worth it.

I missed the 1st KS, and just bought the base game for $60. I think the base was ~$76 with the KS. So I saved a few bucks, but I'd have to pay extra for things like the exclusive Dust sets, the extra maps, extra units. Plus some of it just isn't available now, or is hard to come by.

In the end, I think the $120 will end up being worth it.
 
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Scott Everts
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Actually the $700 is pretty accurate. I spent around $500 for the first KS for everything. Not sure the exact cost but I know it was in that range. I also subscribed to the Gazette and purchased US Rangers so currently have everything released so far (still waiting for Commonwealth box which was a shipping error).

So far I've only backed this one at the £25 level. The main problem is the exchange rate sucks so when you convert to dollars this game is mega expensive.

But I'm hesitating on the SoN Scenario set and new terrain tiles. I'm finally getting a bit overwhelmed and storage is now becoming an issue. In some ways I wish I just got the Shadows stuff since that interests me the most. I probably shouldn't of gotten the 3 scenario packs in the original KS. Might be time to consider not trying to own the whole lot and selling off sections.
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Mike
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The game is really good and the artwork is incredible! But as many others have pointed out... the buy in costs are really high. I'm sad I missed out buying everything the first go around since the same things offered this time have gone up so much in price.

I too am at the minimum pledge this time and will just have to wait for the scenarios and SoN to hit the stores. I have no regrets, however, dropping the amount of money I did on the first KS. I feel like I got my money's worth that time.

I wish they would have went American dollars instead.
 
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Nick Jones
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ScottE wrote:
Actually the $700 is pretty accurate. I spent around $500 for the first KS for everything. Not sure the exact cost but I know it was in that range. I also subscribed to the Gazette and purchased US Rangers so currently have everything released so far (still waiting for Commonwealth box which was a shipping error).


But to be fair, (for people that didn't take part in the first kickstarter) if you dropped $500 on the first kickstarter you probably already paid for most of the stuff in this run. Acthung Cthulu, Sainte Mere Eglise, Carentan, Pegasus Bridge, Shadows over Normandie itself, they were all addons in the original KS. So if you've paid $500 at this point I'm guessing all you are missing is pointe do hoc and the new stretch rewards? Which only costs you about $50-60 with shipping.

Again, still stupidly expensive. But for people that don't know, it would seem like you spent $500 on the last kickstarter and would need to do the same here again. Essentially this kickstarter just allows more people to jump in on the expansion printing.
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Scott Everts
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themeeplesociety wrote:
ScottE wrote:
Actually the $700 is pretty accurate. I spent around $500 for the first KS for everything. Not sure the exact cost but I know it was in that range. I also subscribed to the Gazette and purchased US Rangers so currently have everything released so far (still waiting for Commonwealth box which was a shipping error).


But to be fair, (for people that didn't take part in the first kickstarter) if you dropped $500 on the first kickstarter you probably already paid for most of the stuff in this run. Acthung Cthulu, Sainte Mere Eglise, Carentan, Pegasus Bridge, Shadows over Normandie itself, they were all addons in the original KS. So if you've paid $500 at this point I'm guessing all you are missing is pointe do hoc and the new stretch rewards? Which only costs you about $50-60 with shipping.

Again, still stupidly expensive. But for people that don't know, it would seem like you spent $500 on the last kickstarter and would need to do the same here again. Essentially this kickstarter just allows more people to jump in on the expansion printing.

That is a good point. That's why I'm at the 25 level. The new scenario sounds neat but it may be years before I'd get to it so can wait for retail at a much lower price. The new terrain isn't a big deal since nothing supports it. I got the river set last time but it's useless since there's no missions for it. We've already got a lot of terrain, more isn't necessary. I think the big lesson when a game system gets so huge that eventually you realize you can't own it all. And this game has reached it so time to be more choosy!
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Nick Jones
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ScottE wrote:
I think the big lesson when a game system gets so huge that eventually you realize you can't own it all. And this game has reached it so time to be more choosy!


Ha, that's the problem I always run into as well. I did the same thing with the original BattleLore. Bought everything I could find. Never played 90% of it. I'm honestly still struggling with this KS myself, but I only have the base at this point, so getting all the extras is probably worth it for me. I've debated just buying the US and German army boxes when they release (supposedly this month) and then picking up a few extra sheets here and there. But the campaigns and promise of exclusive armies in the KS are calling to me this time around. I may still chicken out, but for now I'm in.

P.S. If you want to sell off sections from the original KS, send me a PM first.
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Scott Everts
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themeeplesociety wrote:
ScottE wrote:
I think the big lesson when a game system gets so huge that eventually you realize you can't own it all. And this game has reached it so time to be more choosy!


Ha, that's the problem I always run into as well. I did the same thing with the original BattleLore. Bought everything I could find. Never played 90% of it. I'm honestly still struggling with this KS myself, but I only have the base at this point, so getting all the extras is probably worth it for me. I've debated just buying the US and German army boxes when they release (supposedly this month) and then picking up a few extra sheets here and there. But the campaigns and promise of exclusive armies in the KS are calling to me this time around. I may still chicken out, but for now I'm in.

I will say the £25 level is probably worth it for all the new counter sheets. Many of those are KS exclusives. Though as they did this time, will probably be offered in the next one again. If I was just starting out I'd probably get the SoN set too.

I'm kind of excited for the super heroes and new themed units. Necromancer sounds pretty neat!
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Nick Jones
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ScottE wrote:
I'm kind of excited for the super heroes and new themed units. Necromancer sounds pretty neat!


I'm really conflicted. I really only care about the WWII theme, but the art is so good on everything they do I think I want SoN as well.

Is there a place to get a better idea of how SoN plays? It seems like all that's on the kickstarter is a cinematic?

Since you own everything, if I picked up the US and German Boxes along with D-Day, would it add enough diversity to make army building fun and varied? I'm mainly in the kickstarter because it seems like the best way to get a lot of content at a *mildly* reduced price. But Clem said iello has everything in their warehouse, so I'm hoping I could pick it up here in the states without the premium on shipping relatively soon. Unless of course it sells out... which brings me back to why I'm in the kickstarter...
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Andrew Stewart
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themeeplesociety wrote:
ScottE wrote:
I'm kind of excited for the super heroes and new themed units. Necromancer sounds pretty neat!


I'm really conflicted. I really only care about the WWII theme, but the art is so good on everything they do I think I want SoN as well.

Is there a place to get a better idea of how SoN plays? It seems like all that's on the kickstarter is a cinematic?

Since you own everything, if I picked up the US and German Boxes along with D-Day, would it add enough diversity to make army building fun and varied? I'm mainly in the kickstarter because it seems like the best way to get a lot of content at a *mildly* reduced price. But Clem said iello has everything in their warehouse, so I'm hoping I could pick it up here in the states without the premium on shipping relatively soon. Unless of course it sells out... which brings me back to why I'm in the kickstarter...


Re. how SoN plays - one way (only way?)to get an idea is to download the Achtung Cthulhu 13pg PDF from the DPG site (you have to register for the forum though). This has a listing on the Mythos symbols etc plus a multi-game mini campaign using the KS Mythos bits & boards. Hope this helps....
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Scott Everts
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themeeplesociety wrote:
Since you own everything, if I picked up the US and German Boxes along with D-Day, would it add enough diversity to make army building fun and varied? I'm mainly in the kickstarter because it seems like the best way to get a lot of content at a *mildly* reduced price. But Clem said iello has everything in their warehouse, so I'm hoping I could pick it up here in the states without the premium on shipping relatively soon. Unless of course it sells out... which brings me back to why I'm in the kickstarter...

I'd say if you got the US, German, D-Day sets you'd have plenty of stuff for play. D-Day comes with new boards and scenarios so lots of gameplay there. The US & German box sets are strictly new units so only good for home made scenarios right now. Though hopefully they will create new scenarios eventually.
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Ondrej Kocnar
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ScottE wrote:
themeeplesociety wrote:
ScottE wrote:
I think the big lesson when a game system gets so huge that eventually you realize you can't own it all. And this game has reached it so time to be more choosy! :)


Ha, that's the problem I always run into as well. I did the same thing with the original BattleLore. Bought everything I could find. Never played 90% of it. I'm honestly still struggling with this KS myself, but I only have the base at this point, so getting all the extras is probably worth it for me. I've debated just buying the US and German army boxes when they release (supposedly this month) and then picking up a few extra sheets here and there. But the campaigns and promise of exclusive armies in the KS are calling to me this time around. I may still chicken out, but for now I'm in.

I will say the £25 level is probably worth it for all the new counter sheets. Many of those are KS exclusives. Though as they did this time, will probably be offered in the next one again. If I was just starting out I'd probably get the SoN set too.

I'm kind of excited for the super heroes and new themed units. Necromancer sounds pretty neat!


Well, are you sure there will be more KSs soon.
And the SG stuff will be perhaps offered again, but I am sure it will
cost quite a lot, probably the 6-7 pounds per sheet the former SG are priced now.
 
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Bruno Gaia
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Im' sort of unbiased and don't want to defend DPG at any cost but look at it that way: the base pledge is 70£ and due to the number of SG that will be acheived, it's gonna ba a hell of a game with at least three expansions in it when it comes out...

I personnaly back all things related to SoN/A!C (and some HoN I consider essential) and that will get me a 150 euros spending for a "base game" and enough expansion to play for a looong time !
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Jacek Deimer
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As other mentioned , it's 120$ for base game + all stretch goals. And it look like stretch goals add a lot of content, especially new units an heroes.

As additional bonus you get all extra stuff (stretch goals) before it hits retail.

Also a lot of stretch goals are KS exclusive. So getting them after campaing will be rather difficult and pricy. Just look at ebay prices of stuff like DUST punchboard or Wittman (not even exclusive, but to be relesed in November).
 
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Mark Watson
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Tott wrote:

The problem FOR ME is I am an all or nothing kind of guy when I buy into a new system like this... To do that know would be over $700 for first KS and the newest KS with all add-ons, extras..and let's nto forget a top shipping.......yikes....and that is if you can find teh first kickstarter......there are a ton of games I could buy for that price...

Most of the extras are just early access in effect - there's not actually that much KS exclusive in either campaign. Most of the rest will hit retail.

To get the KS exclusives you're only looking at about £50 + postage. Anything else you can get at retail. It's the postage that's the killer, unless you go 'all in' the discounts offered on the expansions is pretty much swallowed up by the postage costs, so you're not saving a huge amount. I've pretty much went for the base set + Pointe Du Hoc and the KS Exclusive units, everything else I'll buy as and when it comes out.

ScottE wrote:

I'd say if you got the US, German, D-Day sets you'd have plenty of stuff for play. D-Day comes with new boards and scenarios so lots of gameplay there. The US & German box sets are strictly new units so only good for home made scenarios right now. Though hopefully they will create new scenarios eventually.


You can always swap equal point units around in the printed scenarios if that's what you want. I also expect the Gazette scenarios will make use of the army units.
If you're not using open scenarios the army packs are going to be limited. For open scenarios they're pretty much essential D-Day further enhances this since you can now add open landing scenarios too.
 
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X. Nostradunwhich
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There have been a few AAR's about some point-based skirmishes, where each side just builds an army and plays. Such a thing is not reliant on scenarios and can use all the units

As a caveat, I think that perhaps an "open ended" scenario that allows army building but sets some limits on armor or some of the command options would be a good platform for a league or similar idea... the base rules do not cover any limits on army mix but I think a framework could be easily developed.

I suspect that DPG is going to end up in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If they publish scenarios using add-on terrain sets or forces from scenario boxes then those that do not have them will complain about support for units they don't have. Conversely, those that DID buy them will complain if scenarios do not use the units for which they handed over their money.

A good mix of both would would help, but "you cannot please all the people all of the time"
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There are currently 7 unlocked expansions -– I’m assuming the Guardians will be since it’s so close –- so right now the my estimated value considering online discounted retailer prices is $161. And there are likely to be more unlocked freebies.

My estimate is based on CSI’s current discounted HoN base game price of $49 and ~$10 per character/unit expansion set, again based on CSI’s usual discounted price (if you can even get it at all since some are KS exclusive) + KS exclusive lighthouse adventure @ $42.

 
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Arthur chang
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Nostradunwhich wrote:
...

As a caveat, I think that perhaps an "open ended" scenario that allows army building but sets some limits on armor or some of the command options would be a good platform for a league or similar idea... the base rules do not cover any limits on army mix but I think a framework could be easily developed.
...


I've modified 2 scenarios so far (mission 2 from the base game and D-Day mission 1) with additional units and it seemed to work out fine. Both times the game was pretty close up till the end, just like the original scenario versions.

Basically if there was an asymmetric army point total in the original scenario, I would make sure we added the same proportional points on each side.
 
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clem seurat
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@arthur chang : you did well by modifying the armies composition with the point system. Keep in mind also that some scenarios are designed to take into account some lack of vehicles for example, or specific équipment. But you got the point.
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Nostradunwhich wrote:

As a caveat, I think that perhaps an "open ended" scenario that allows army building but sets some limits on armor or some of the command options would be a good platform for a league or similar idea... the base rules do not cover any limits on army mix but I think a framework could be easily developed.

The open scenarios as is lean toward this. In the base game you've got various setups and objectives which can be applied, while the landing scenarios from D-Day restrict what you can deploy and how units enter. They don't dictate the army form, but for example taking a lot of vehicles in a landing scenario is a bad idea (it's a lot easier to deal with tanks when they only arrive two at a time ...).
It's easy to envisage rules which could be applied to scenarios to encourage certain forces. For example you could allow destroyed infantry to return to the board on their next turn while downed vehicles are gone for good (i.e. the army has plenty of infantry reinforcements but few vehicles in working order) which generally encourages selecting infantry over tanks.

I'm not sure it needs to be restrictive though. From my own experiments with armour and troops I'm beginning to think there's a sweet spot in terms of % points spent on a given unit type. Haven't played around with the command options and units yet, but certainly in terms of infantry, vehicles and tanks.
Quote:

A good mix of both would would help, but "you cannot please all the people all of the time"

You don't necessarily need to do one or the other. The last non-open scenario in the base game (IIRC, don't have the book in front of me) allows both players to pick an army up to a given points value.
 
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Rob Defense
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I missed the first KS too, bought the base game from Amazon and am loving it (minus all the $#@&$ counter errors). I just got the D-Day box imported from UK for $44 ... Now, I've backed the Shadows KS at a crazy high level ... but I'm looking at this like a miniatures game. And I'm OK with the price.

You get a CRAPLOAD of stuff in the core box alone. The components are gorgeous and sturdy. Plus, it's easy to play. I can do a battle with my son in a hour. And I get to play as Oddball from Kelly's Heroes.

I wish they'd find a good French-to-English translator for their KS announcements and rulebook, but I'll take it.


 
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Allan Doyle

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If cost is the issue. The £25 pledge is a steal. At about $55.00 after shipping you get the Lighthouse, Point Du Hoc, and 7+ punchboards. Punchboards alone could be $100.00 value or more.

Then order SoN from someplace local when it retails.
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John Wiser
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AKDoyle wrote:
If cost is the issue. The £25 pledge is a steal. At about $55.00 after shipping you get the Lighthouse, Point Du Hoc, and 7+ punchboards. Punchboards alone could be $100.00 value or more.

Then order SoN from someplace local when it retails.


Great minds think alike. I was going back and forth on backing or not but at the end of the day I could not miss out on the exclusives for the price of $55.

And yes, I will pick up SoN when it becomes available here in the States (and will stop by Iello to see if they have any dates on when things will be available here in the US). Would like to see Iello carrying the Gazette for those of us here in the States.
 
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