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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Bureaucracy vs imperial 2 rss

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Roger Reisinger
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Hi guys,

So my group is getting together to play our annual ti3 game and I want to use the SE SC's. I also want to use AoE and the imperial2 card instead of Bureaucracy.

Now, the rules say not to do this but Im not sure why. After some searching it seems like the biggest obstacle is that not enough political/ action cards are available if you do what I am proposing. Has anyone house ruled a way to make this work?

Im thinking why not just combine the secondary of B to ISC 2, so anyone can activate it for the political/ action card except for the active player and the active player doesnt block the use of the secondary with option b of the primary ability.

Thoughts or advice on how to use the SE SC's with AoE and ISC2 much appreciated.

Roger
 
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Stephen Allen
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Imperial II is supposed to be played with AoE
 
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Roger Reisinger
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some_guy wrote:
Imperial II is supposed to be played with AoE


Yeah, but it says in the rules you cant use those 2 things along with SE SC's....
 
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Scott Lewis
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Lowecore wrote:
some_guy wrote:
Imperial II is supposed to be played with AoE


Yeah, but it says in the rules you cant use those 2 things along with SE SC's....

Where does it say that? While it's true that Bureaucracy doesn't really work well with Age of Empire, I didn't see any specific reference to "can't use it".

However, in the "Option 1: The Variant Imperial Strategy Card" section on page 9, it specifically says you MUST use "Age of Empire" with Imperial II.


One thing to note, however. The 1-3-4-8 cards are meant to be used as a "set". The 2-5-6-7 cards are "mix-and-match".

IE, if you want to use Imperial II, you must also use the #1, #3, and #4 cards from the base set (Initiative, Political, and Logistics). You cannot use Leadership, Assembly, and Production with Imperial II (without making house rules). The Imperial II card is for when you want to use the original set of 1-3-4-8 cards, but want to use the modified Imperial card instead of the original. If you use Imperial II, you must also use Age of Empire.
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Roger Reisinger
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like I said, I want to use the SE cards with Imp2 and AoE, and someone sent me the Imp Beau card so thanks for that.
 
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Stephen Allen
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Lowecore wrote:
like I said, I want to use the SE cards with Imp2 and AoE...


.. and there's no reason why you can't...
 
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Scott Lewis
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some_guy wrote:
Lowecore wrote:
like I said, I want to use the SE cards with Imp2 and AoE...


.. and there's no reason why you can't...

If you are willing to use house rules, at least

I thought originally that the OP was asking for official ways to do this, and there are none. But there are house rules and unofficial variants to allow it.
 
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Washington Irving
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I have played with Imperial 2 and only Shattered Empires strategy cards, I thought that it was fine. I would be wary of playing Imperial 2, Production, and Warfare all together. I also *really* like Bureaucracy and if you haven't played with it I suggest you try it.

I'm not sure if your proposed new card still allies the person executing the primary ability to build without activation. Bbuilding without activation is usually better than gaining a political card and an action card, so you are changing how desirable the card is. Still, seems okay. I don't like house rules that contradict the text on game components because of implementation issues.

This looks like a variant you might be interested in http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/757071/red-tape-bureaucracy

I have never used it, so I can't comment on how it plays.
 
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Roger Reisinger
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KalKraken wrote:
I have played with Imperial 2 and only Shattered Empires strategy cards, I thought that it was fine. I would be wary of playing Imperial 2, Production, and Warfare all together. I also *really* like Bureaucracy and if you haven't played with it I suggest you try it.

I'm not sure if your proposed new card still allies the person executing the primary ability to build without activation. Bbuilding without activation is usually better than gaining a political card and an action card, so you are changing how desirable the card is. Still, seems okay. I don't like house rules that contradict the text on game components because of implementation issues.

This looks like a variant you might be interested in http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/757071/red-tape-bureaucracy

I have never used it, so I can't comment on how it plays.


Hi, thank you for the helpful reply. Yes, we havent played with bureaucracy and it isnt so much I dont like that card, it is more I like the 1vp given for holding rex with Imp2.

here is the Imperial Bureaucracy card, tell me what you think.

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/86272/imperial-bureaucracy...
 
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Jonathan
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Has anyone tried to play imperial II without age of empire? Or should you just go for the official variant of impperial I(1 vp instead of 2). I like the idea of not knowing when the game ends, but i see the problems with imperial I.
 
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Scott Lewis
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JonesRoman wrote:
Has anyone tried to play imperial II without age of empire? Or should you just go for the official variant of impperial I(1 vp instead of 2). I like the idea of not knowing when the game ends, but i see the problems with imperial I.

You could probably do it pretty easily, just turn over an objective at the end of each round during the Status Phase.
 
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Shezmaine
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Our first game started with Imperial 2 but without me noticing that it meant we needed Age of Empire.

What happened was that there were only a couple of objective cards, but no mechanic for drawing more objectives. Which quickly became obviously flawed, hence a rapid switch to Age of Empire and the game continued.

Ironically, no-one got to 10 VPs. I should have had it in the bag but Mecatol was snatched from me before I could activate the card, which left me floundering with 9 VPs and needing several turns to rebuild my invasion fleet and get Rex back, but only 2 turns left on the track. 2 Other players then also made it to 9 and then the game ended.

Not entirely satisfactory either way, but they gave me the win as I had the most planets (by far).

So unless I'm missing something, you just can't use Imperial 2 without Age of Empire.
 
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shezmaine wrote:

So unless I'm missing something, you just can't use Imperial 2 without Age of Empire.

Nope, not missing anything Strictly speaking, you need to use Age of Empire.

But as mentioned above, you can easily rectify it otherwise by just drawing a new objective each round instead to emulate what Bureaucracy/Imperial I do, if you don't like the Age of Empire "all objectives are revealed from the start" approach.
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