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Subject: AA guns have too much range on the Battle Board (I think) rss

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Steve
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The range of 2 "rectangles" diagonally for AA on the Battle Board is just too much.
It gives AA guns too much range when they fire diagonally.
Two sideways and forward/back and 2 like a knight moves is fine.

Because AA has too much range, it becomes tempting to mass more and more ships around the key ships [Carriers and Atago].

Taking away those long diagonal ranges rounds off the corners of the "box" of the AA range, making it more of a circle.

It will cause players to stagger the rows of ships, so ships are not directly behind the ship in front of it. But rather, between the 2 ships in front of it. This will reduce the number of ships that can fire at Dive Bombers over an "adjacent" ship from (not including the target ship) 8 down to 6. It also reduces the number of ships that can fire at Torpedo planes attacking the right side of a ship from (not including the target ship) 5 to 3or5. [It is 5 if they don't stagger the rows, but this is bad for firing at Ds.]

With this rule you may not even need a rule that limits the size of a Task Force (TF) that can be stacked together in a zone.

I think that the reason that nations did not create huge TFs is that under air attack the ships would make many sharp turns and would collide if they were too close together. But, the effective AA range is not that far [except for 5" guns with proximity fuses (which came later)]. So only the inter-most ring of AA ships can effectively fire at planes attacking the center ship(s). The USN started the war with TFs of 1 carrier, 2 or 3 CA/CL, and 5 or 6 DD, by the end it was 3-4 CV, 4-5 CA/CL, and 5-7 DD per TF (plus a bunch more Ftrs).

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Seth Owen
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There were doctrinal differences between the two sides that are not reflected in Midway's simple system. The Japanese used loose formations that relied on ship evasive maneuvers and each ship protecting itself. The USN used mutually supporting formations. The game basically has both sides using the USA approach.

Making your suggested change without adjusting other elements of the system may derail the game balance.
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Steve
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wargamer55 wrote:
Making your suggested change without adjusting other elements of the system may derail the game balance.

Seth, you'll remember that I have made many, many suggested rule changes. Really enough to require a total rewrite of the rules and call it a new name; maybe Midway II? Play balance has been derailed already by the other changes.

This rule is intended to maybe replace my "artificial" limits on task force size. If it works as I intend. [Remember the TF size rule was -- a task force can contain no more than 13 ships (where BB count as 2 ships, because they are not "handy"), most ships count as 1 ship, and Trans count as 1/2 ship (if there are a lot of them). If there are more than 13 "ships" in a zone only 13 of them can be put on the battle board at a time, the smaller 1st, but the attacker can "see" both to decide which to attack.]

I have addressed the differences in AA doctrine in other rules. The Japanese doctrine was not as good as the American, at least in the long run. The American doctrine shot down more planes and so killed more pilots which the Japanese could not replace. It also weakened further Japanese attacks in the same battle. So, forcing the Japanese to use a different set of rules on the Battle Board would also "derail" play balance.
 
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Steve
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Steve1501 wrote:
The range of 2 "rectangles" diagonally for AA on the Battle Board is just too much.
It gives AA guns too much range when they fire diagonally.
Two sideways and forward/back and 2 like a knight moves is fine.

Because AA has too much range, it becomes tempting to mass more and more ships around the key ships [Carriers and Atago].

Taking away those long diagonal ranges rounds off the corners of the "box" of the AA range, making it more of a circle.

I might be even use different rules for USN & IJN, a more restrictive one for the IJN.

The USN rule is the above rule. AA range is 2 sqs., but not 2 diagonally.
The IJN rule is -- AA range is 1 or 2 like a Rook [in chess] moves or 1 sq. diagonally. They can not fire 2 like a chess Knight moves.
[Note that the IJN ships are better at dodging bombs and torpedoes to compensate for less AA fire.]

Note that the below is intended for a new Combat Results system that uses Buckets of Dice.

Perhaps Ts (torpedo bombers) need to fly through sqs. on the Battle Board to reach their launch "square". As they do this they are fired at by the ships' AA. If they fly over a ship its AA is doubled. Each ship that it flies adjacent to [not including the ones it stops adjacent to] adds its AA factor to a cumulative total [plus the ones it flies over]. For each XX # of this total shoot down 1 T before the attack is made or roll 1 die with a hit # of X and shoot down 1 T with each hit. These ships can still fire normally in the main part of the phase, but can fire at just 1 group of Ts that fly by. XX & X will be determined later by playtesting. [Ds fly much higher and so can not be fired at in this way.]
 
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Steve
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Steve1501 wrote:
The range of 2 "rectangles" diagonally for AA on the Battle Board is just too much.
It gives AA guns too much range when they fire diagonally.
Two sideways and forward/back and 2 like a knight moves is fine.

Because AA has too much range, it becomes tempting to mass more and more ships around the key ships [Carriers and Atago].

Taking away those long diagonal ranges rounds off the corners of the "box" of the AA range, making it more of a circle.

A year ago I posted an idea that ships could be 3 spaces apart sideways and [still] 2 forward and back. Now torpedo planes can be placed in different spaces when they attack the sides of 2 ships that are in the same row 3 spaces apart. The maximum number of ships that would fit on the Battle Board is 6 columns of 4 ships each = 24 ships.

If we use this spacing, the USN would lose just the 1 space in the outside corners rounding off the corners of the "box" of AA range.

The IJN could lose 3 spaces in each corner. This is not because the American AA guns have longer range, but rather because their ships are closer together [so the spaces are a little smaller] so the AA range just seems longer. The IJN would be better at dodging bombs and torpedoes to compensate for their looser AA formation.

 
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Steve
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It is 2 years later now, July 2016.

Recently I took an idea of Glenn's and used it to scale HITS and LOSES for attack size. It says, after you get a CRT result in Hits and Loses, you roll 2 dice for each Hit and for each Loss with a HIT # = to 1/4 the attack size, round up. If there were no Hits or no Loses you roll just 1 die for that Hit or Loss, or both. What this rule does is to increase the amount of luck and increase the spread of possible results. It is always possible to miss completely, but it's not likely with large attacks; and you can score more HITS than the CRT calls for, but it's not likely with small attacks. In fact small attacks will usually score less HITS.

With the rule in the reply above the US has longer range AA guns and the IJN ships have even less AA range.

However, I now feel that the larger AA range box is good, but the USN ships should use the whole box and IJN ships should have less range and lose just the 4 corner rectangles. Just losing these corners is enough of a loss. They should also reduce the chance of a HIT & of a LOSS by reducing the Hit numbers by 1, but add 1 more die, because they are dodging. An attack can always roll at least 1 die with a Hit # of 1.
. . Adding 1 more die has the most effect when you are rolling 2 [now 3] dice with 1 less Hit #.

 
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