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Subject: Do end of game abilities happen on the last turn or after it? rss

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Tylor Lilley
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For example, if Master Plan's ability goes off on the last turn, do I earn 5,000 for each marker on my Bookie Joint or 10,000?

Basically it comes down to: are end of game abilities a separate thing that happen after the last turn, or do they occur at the end of the last turn?

Thanks!
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Paulo Renato
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to me you just play your turn as usual... do end of turn effects if any and then do the End of Game effects if any
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Tylor Lilley
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Muse23PT wrote:
to me you just play your turn as usual... do end of turn effects if any and then do the End of Game effects if any


So by your interpretation the end of game effects happen at the end of the last turn, yes? Then I would get double money from my bookie?
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Paulo Renato
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Would have to check the card complete text to give you my opinion
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Tylor Lilley
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Muse23PT wrote:
Would have to check the card complete text to give you my opinion


Well, I already included all the relevant information for the question in my first post. But here are the card texts anyway:

Master Plan wrote:
Next turn, double all $ you gain.


Bookie Joint wrote:
At the end of the game, gain an extra $5,000 for each marker on this.


Full disclosure: We ruled the opposite of what you suggest, that the ability happens at the end of the game, and the end of the game only occurs after the last turn has ended. This was only based on our thoughts while trying to work through it however, as we couldn't find anything relating to an official answer either way. So I'd be interested to hear why you think it might be the other way around.

Or what anyone else thinks, for that matter.
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Lee Fisher
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tylorlilley wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
Would have to check the card complete text to give you my opinion


Well, I already included all the relevant information for the question in my first post. But here are the card texts anyway:

Master Plan wrote:
Next turn, double all $ you gain.


Bookie Joint wrote:
At the end of the game, gain an extra $5,000 for each marker on this.


Full disclosure: We ruled the opposite of what you suggest, that the ability happens at the end of the game, and the end of the game only occurs after the last turn has ended. This was only based on our thoughts while trying to work through it however, as we couldn't find anything relating to an official answer either way. So I'd be interested to hear why you think it might be the other way around.

Or what anyone else thinks, for that matter.


I would agree, end of game is separate from all turns.
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Paulo Renato
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I went to check the cards because it wasn't that clear to me what you were asking

If I'm understanding you right you are asking what will happen if you play Master Plan in your last turn? Right?

If that's it, Master Plan will have no effect because there's no next turn for it to activate... the end of the game isn't a turn

Bookie Joint just says that every Development Marker on it at the end of the game is Worth $15.000 instead of $10.000

Also... I don't think you understood what master plan is... it doesn't multiply the value of the Development Markers ($)... It just doubles the amount of Development Markers you are going to place on your next turn, imagine that after you have played Master Plan, on your next turn you play a Holding that would get 3 Development Markers on it, instead it will get 6... or if you play and action card that allows you to put development markers on a holding you have, instead of the number it says on the card you would put double on it...

At least this is how I understand both cards

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Tylor Lilley
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Muse23PT wrote:
I went to check the cards because it wasn't that clear to me what you were asking


I'm sorry if it was unclear to you, but I don't think its that complex of a question, and I still don't feel as if my question was unclear. I think its rather straight-foward.

Now I don't want to be offend you, but it is noteworthy that you are incorrect on several accounts throughout the rest of your post. Perhaps this is why you thought it seemed unclear, as you yourself seem to be a bit unclear on some key rules.

Muse23PT wrote:
If I'm understanding you right you are asking what will happen if you play Master Plan in your last turn? Right?


No, I'm not. I clearly state in the opener that I am talking about when "Master Plan's ability goes off on the last turn." Thus in this scenario I played the Master Plan card on the second-to-last turn, as that's what would cause its ability to go off on the last turn. If I played Master Plan on the last turn the ability would never happen, as you state next. So that's not what I'm asking.

Muse23PT wrote:
Bookie Joint just says that every Development Marker on it at the end of the game is Worth $15.000 instead of $10.000


No, it doesn't. I just posted the card text above. I just double checked it again with my copy to be sure. It does not say they are worth $15,000. It says that for each one, you gain an extra $5,000. In most cases this is the same, as it still effectively means each marker on it contributes $15,000 to your final score. But in a case like this, where something effects what or how much $ gained, it matters, because the card says you gain $, not that you alter the amount each marker on it is worth.

Muse23PT wrote:
Also... I don't think you understood what master plan is... it doesn't multiply the value of the Development Markers ($)...


This is correct, but I never misunderstood it, as I never suggested it does anything with development markers. In the card text I posted above it says nothing about markers, so that never confused me. Nor did I ever suggest it did anything about markers, so I'm not sure where this is coming from other than from your misunderstanding of the bookie card I pointed out above.

Muse23PT wrote:
It just doubles the amount of Development Markers you are going to place on your next turn, imagine that after you have played Master Plan, on your next turn you play a Holding that would get 3 Development Markers on it, instead it will get 6... or if you play and action card that allows you to put development markers on a holding you have, instead of the number it says on the card you would put double on it...


No, it does not. As stated above and in the card text above, it does nothing with development markers. These are not the same as gaining $.

$ and markers are clearly differentiate by both the rules and several of the cards. If a card refers to one thing and not the other, that difference can be important. I appreciate you trying to help but I would suggest you brush up a bit on the rules first, as you've posted several things that are incorrect in this thread.
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Tylor Lilley
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lfisher wrote:
tylorlilley wrote:


Full disclosure: We ruled the opposite of what you suggest, that the ability happens at the end of the game, and the end of the game only occurs after the last turn has ended. This was only based on our thoughts while trying to work through it however, as we couldn't find anything relating to an official answer either way. So I'd be interested to hear why you think it might be the other way around.

Or what anyone else thinks, for that matter.


I would agree, end of game is separate from all turns.


Okay, thanks for the confirmation. Would still be nice to hear from Donald, but we will play this way unless he says otherwise.
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Paulo Renato
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Sorry for the confusion and misunderstanding...

I got confused because I thought you were talking about the development markers because of the bookie joint...

After the new explanation you did I understand what you were asking and, the $ you will get from the Master Plan will not be affected by the End of Game scoring you get from the Bookie Joint... the end of game, like I said, is not part of the turn that has just been played, they are 2 separate things, so you don't get to benefit from the master plan in conjunction with the end game benefit from the bookie joint or any other holding or thug you have in play at the end of the game

Really sorry about all the misunderstanding... and the confusion created... not my intention, and I can say that I don't have any problems with the rules, it was just a combination of misunderstanding your question with the timing of the play you were asking about and the $ and development markers related to the bookie joint.

blush
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Gillum the Stoor
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tylorlilley wrote:
lfisher wrote:
tylorlilley wrote:


Full disclosure: We ruled the opposite of what you suggest, that the ability happens at the end of the game, and the end of the game only occurs after the last turn has ended. This was only based on our thoughts while trying to work through it however, as we couldn't find anything relating to an official answer either way. So I'd be interested to hear why you think it might be the other way around.

Or what anyone else thinks, for that matter.


I would agree, end of game is separate from all turns.


Okay, thanks for the confirmation. Would still be nice to hear from Donald, but we will play this way unless he says otherwise.

The rules do say, "The game ends after 12 game rounds."

Note the word "after".

By the time you can apply Bookie Joint's "At the end of the game" benefit, the 12th turn is over and Master Plan has already paid off whatever it would.

If Master Plan could still pay off, the 12th turn wouldn't be over, the game end would have yet to occur, and Bookie Joint wouldn't be paying anything yet.
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Tylor Lilley
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Muse23PT wrote:
Sorry for the confusion and misunderstanding...


Don't worry about it! It's really no problem. I appreciate you trying to help; I just wanted to make sure that the incorrect rulings didn't go unanswered in case someone else stumbled onto this thread later on down the line. I wouldn't want them to get confused!

gillum wrote:

The rules do say, "The game ends after 12 game rounds."

Note the word "after".

By the time you can apply Bookie Joint's "At the end of the game" benefit, the 12th turn is over and Master Plan has already paid off whatever it would.

If Master Plan could still pay off, the 12th turn wouldn't be over, the game end would have yet to occur, and Bookie Joint wouldn't be paying anything yet.


Yes, now that you mention that I believe that specific line in the rules is also what caused us to decide the "combo" didn't work. That was the logic we used to make that temporary ruling anyway; we weren't 100% certain of ourselves (we've been wrong before!), so we figured it couldn't hurt to post the question and see if other users thought the same thing.

Thanks for the confirmation!
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Donald X.
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tylorlilley wrote:
For example, if Master Plan's ability goes off on the last turn, do I earn 5,000 for each marker on my Bookie Joint or 10,000?

Basically it comes down to: are end of game abilities a separate thing that happen after the last turn, or do they occur at the end of the last turn?

The end of the game isn't a turn and end-of-game abilities don't happen on a turn. A Master Plan played on the 2nd-to-last turn doubles the $ you gain on the last turn, but has no effect on end-of-game abilities such as Lamonte's Escort Service.
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Tylor Lilley
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Thanks!


Let me just say that I love it that you comment so quickly and so frequently in threads like this. One of the reasons I even got Greed, despite not being the biggest Queen Games fan, was because I knew if I had any major problems with the rules I could just come to the forum and I knew you'd be here to answer any questions in a timely manner! It really means a lot to me as a customer.

Just thought you might wanna know. Not that you need it; every game with your name on it I've played so far has been a lot of fun!
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