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DC Comics Deck-Building Game: Heroes Unite» Forums » General

Subject: More strategy, less luck? rss

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Vlad Paloiu
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Hello guys!

Myself and some friends have been playing for a while the DC DBG game trying to find a variant in combining the 2 sets where strategy overcomes the luck factor. After we came up with different (and sometimes) creative ways to pick super-heroes we tried to make a combined deck that would achieve our goal.

Getting rid of some cards: From the previous sessions when we chose to play with the full-combined decks we've learned that whoever gets the most amount of Power Rings and a card like Sciencell or Saint Walker would probably bag the win. Therefore we only let in our deck 1 Sciencell and 1 Saint Walker and 4 Power Rings + 2 small ones (that worth 1VP). We also left only 4 Suicide Squads and took out 1-2 out of each card that had multiple copies in the deck in order to have only 2 copies of each card. We also left in the deck 1 Cheetah since is a very good early card and we thought that having 2 would increase the chance of getting one early in the game and getting an unnecessarily head start.

Style of play: We play with 12 SV, half pack of kicks and all weaknesses. We also have this rule where you can either buy from the lineup or defeat the Super-Villan. (You can gain cards from the lineup or from the top of the main deck and at the same time defeat the SV, if only you have cards that will specifically tell you to gain cards - like Cheetah or Riddler.) Also when we buy from the lineup we destroy the card in first position and then we refresh.


After we had several sessions with this deck we actually had games that were won by 1 point. Overall the games were closer but still somewhere along the line we felt that luck would still be a powerful factor in getting a win.

Example: We had someone playing Wonder Woman. At a point during the game, he got ahold of Sciencell. From that moment on we couldn't stop in any way the point-spree. He was stacking villains, because of Wonder Woman's ability he was getting more cards in his hand than us, more power and so on, snowballing into a huge advantage and winning the game with actually no problem at all. After the game we discussed on how could we possibly have stopped this from happening since we had no cards or rules that could stop him from snowballing his victory.

We are looking for suggestion in improving the deck or play style in order to get more strategy and less luck involved in the gameplay.

Forgot to mention, we play a 4-man game.

Also a question for the makers, are there any new cards in the new expansions that would somehow silence a Super-Hero's ability or limit his hand (card-number / power) ? Could come very useful in some situations.
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Benj Davis
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12 Supervillains is likely to just encourage runaway leader issues, as they're already the best cards.
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Benj Davis
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weedersson wrote:
Also when we buy from the lineup we destroy the card in first position and then we refresh.


So you buy a card, then destroy the oldest remaining card, then refill immediately? Or if you bought any cards from the lineup this turn, you also destroy the oldest card before you refill?

Either way, that increases randomness and discourages any kind of strategic buying, whether buying to deny a given card to someone it'll help a lot, or holding off for a card you really want, but can't yet afford, hoping no-one else gets to it first.
What's the aim of this variant?

Quote:
Also a question for the makers, are there any new cards in the new expansions that would somehow silence a Super-Hero's ability or limit his hand (card-number / power) ? Could come very useful in some situations.


That sounds like a horrible idea.
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Nathaniel Yamaguchi
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weedersson wrote:
Also a question for the makers, are there any new cards in the new expansions that would somehow silence a Super-Hero's ability or limit his hand (card-number / power) ? Could come very useful in some situations.


You might want to check out the Naruto DBG coming out next month for a card that does something along these lines.
 
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Vlad Paloiu
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Jlerpy wrote:
weedersson wrote:
Also when we buy from the lineup we destroy the card in first position and then we refresh.


So you buy a card, then destroy the oldest remaining card, then refill immediately? Or if you bought any cards from the lineup this turn, you also destroy the oldest card before you refill?

Either way, that increases randomness and discourages any kind of strategic buying, whether buying to deny a given card to someone it'll help a lot, or holding off for a card you really want, but can't yet afford, hoping no-one else gets to it first.
What's the aim of this variant?

Quote:
Also a question for the makers, are there any new cards in the new expansions that would somehow silence a Super-Hero's ability or limit his hand (card-number / power) ? Could come very useful in some situations.


That sounds like a horrible idea.


To answer to your first question, after a player's round is finished we destroy the oldest card and refill the lineup. I don't think it discourages any kind of strategic buying since by refilling the lineup you can get new cards. You can deny cards by buying the oldest card and therefore destroying the 2nd oldest in the lineup. Holding off for a card is not something you'd call 'strategic' since you pretty much rely on luck for that card to be still available after 3 rounds.

The variant isn't perfect since we are asking for feedback, but we aim to reduce the luck factor and hope to achieve a more strategic play. If possible

Well 'horrible' is a bit harsh since you brought no argument to validate your affirmation. As a matter a fact Captain Cold already has the ability to 'silence' your Super Hero by turning him face down until he is defeated.
 
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Benj Davis
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Captain Cold doesn't do so by being played though.
 
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John Galietta III
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Quote:
To answer to your first question, after a player's round is finished we destroy the oldest card and refill the lineup. I don't think it discourages any kind of strategic buying since by refilling the lineup you can get new cards. You can deny cards by buying the oldest card and therefore destroying the 2nd oldest in the lineup. Holding off for a card is not something you'd call 'strategic' since you pretty much rely on luck for that card to be still available after 3 rounds.


I think the point is, the biggest source of randomness in this game is cards being put from the main deck to the line-up. By increasing the amount of cards that do that, you're actually INCREASING randomness. Let's say you are playing right before the player you mentioned who has Wonder Woman. During your turn there is one villain in the line-up, say Clayface. Now he is really good in any deck, so buying him would be a boon to your deck and it would help to sabotage the WW player. Now, in a normal game, he has 1 chance for another villain to pop up in the line-up, when you refill the spot where Clayface was. But in your build, you destroy one additional card, essentially doubling the chance that a villain is refilled, even opening up the possibility that TWO villains are refilled.

Adding an element that adds more random cards every turn, increases how random the game is, and doesn't really add enough strategy to offset.


As to your Science Cell/Saint Walker problem, yes both can be huge problems. I played a game on Monday where I didn't focus on a specific card type, but instead on cards that would work well in my deck. By the end of the game I ended up with 1 science cell, 1 Saint Walker and 3 power rings, which all-together netted me 21 points just in those 3 cards.

The only real way to mitigate Science Cell/Saint Walker without destroying gameplay is to remove them from the game altogether. I ended up doing this with Clayface at one point in the original game. I had too many games where someone got an early Clayface, which led to an early Doomsday or Super Strength and had them buying a SV every other turn because Super Strength/Clayface got them 8 power in 2 cards.
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Benj Davis
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Exactly. More arbitrary card turnover means more randomness, not less.

Now, maybe if you got to pick a card to be destroyed, rather than it being always the oldest, there'd be some thought involved, but it still means more card rotation, which means it's harder to have any kind of plan.

It would probably be less random with a bigger lineup (although that would probably make Luthor devastating).
 
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P.D. Magnus
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weedersson wrote:

Getting rid of some cards: From the previous sessions when we chose to play with the full-combined decks...


If you don't want mad randomness, don't shuffle together both sets.

Since the rules recommend that you shouldn't just shuffle together both sets, your problem is already that you are playing a messy variant. Why try to fix it with a further variant?

Edit: After posting, I thought of a variant which might help. whistle

In addition to the main deck, let each player have a separate deck of their own private/main deck. The line up for a player consists of three public cards from the main deck and two private cards from their private deck. When the lineup needs to be refilled, public cards are refilled from the main deck and private cards from the private deck. (The private deck works like the main deck, and isn't the same as the deck that the player is building during the game.)

But how to construct the decks?

Shuffle together all the cards. Each player draws 5 cards, looks at them, puts one in their own private deck, one in the deck of the player on their left, one in the deck of the player on their right, and two in the main deck.

That will take a crazy long time, but it won't be nearly as random.
 
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