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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: Collective OP meta...one faction? rss

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Thomas Ryan
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I have seen several OP1 reports and they all mention that Borg won...is this the Meta for this OP? Play Borg or lose? Has anyone played in OP1 and won without Borg (And was Borg played at all in your OP?)
 
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Borg was played very little in our OP1's. When it was played, it was typically the Soong and not the Cube or Sphere.

The Borg are at a disadvantage here as their ships (and upgrades) are so expensive you can't fit many upgrades on them, and when they start eating the attacks from the BCT they have no defense and just take all the damage (while their opponent's are still just losing upgrades). The Borg certainly can win OP1, but its not really the best option.
 
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Thomas Ryan
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confirming there were no Borg lists at your OPs?
 
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Larry DeStefano
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At my OP the Top 4 out of a field of 16 were all Borg Cube or Spheres. I myself played Specis 8472. A player I have met several times bulit a Borg killer Klingon fleet and he still ended towards the bottom and I consider him a very good player. I am not a Borg hater, dont believe in banning them, but I may be wrong.....A Borg cube with Picard, 2 ablative armor and some other extras is just VERY TOUGH to beat and I would dare say impossible for a new player. Which to me could be a problem. Now in one way the Borg are great for new players. The winner in The Arena OP was a first time STAW player, first time Borg. He then placed towards the top in the last OP the Collective (With a Cube). However a new player who likes Klingon, Romulans, Federation whatever may not wanna play Borg, and if we limit players options we limit the fun, hence lose players and weaken the STAW community. I have talked to several players who prior to this OP are also starting to have doubts, and they were also in the NON-haters Borg camp. Several players have stated they are flying nothing but Borg for the rest of the OP. Since I dont care about winning the Raven, constellation or Grand Prize I will try other ships....My next build will be anti borg totally, and guess just pray after that...LOL
 
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tpryan01 wrote:
confirming there were no Borg lists at your OPs?


Their expense and lack of upgrades really hinders them in this scenario so the very few that we had over the course of the month did not fare very well. There were no Cube/Sphere winners for us.

I think Danvan's recap does a good job highlighting the Borg weaknesses in this scenario:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1205230/collective-op1-d...
 
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Larry DeStefano
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
Borg was played very little in our OP1's. When it was played, it was typically the Soong and not the Cube or Sphere.

The Borg are at a disadvantage here as their ships (and upgrades) are so expensive you can't fit many upgrades on them, and when they start eating the attacks from the BCT they have no defense and just take all the damage (while their opponent's are still just losing upgrades). The Borg certainly can win OP1, but its not really the best option.


Wanna make sure no one played with a Sphere or Borg Cube?
How big was your OP event?

In our OP it looked the Borg were hardly touched by the BCT because of their movement dials and some Borg players were packing Transwarp and some other movement enhancing cookies. Didnt watch these fights as I was playing my own battles...and for this Op I was not matched against the Borg players.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
tpryan01 wrote:
confirming there were no Borg lists at your OPs?


Their expense and lack of upgrades really hinders them in this scenario so the very few that we had over the course of the month did not fare very well. There were no Cube/Sphere winners for us.

I think Danvan's recap does a good job highlighting the Borg weaknesses in this scenario:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1205230/collective-op1-d...


If I remember correctly 3 out 4 of the Borgs only had one ship. Pretty sure the 4th player did as well, but not positive on that one. So with only one ship they had the points for up grades. One player had a sphere with 2 ab. armour up grades, Picard and some other stuff (He placed in the Top 4) cant remember the rest..The problem with old age LOL
 
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Eric Little
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The first Collective OP1 Event I went to, the top 3 were all Borg.

I won a Collective OP1 Event with an Interceptor 5 Dreadnought w/ the Gavroche Blind Buy.

Resource: Flagship Independent (Fed) (10)

Interceptor 5 (16)
Weyoun (5)
Flagship (0)
Varel (11)
Klingon Boarding Party (6)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Additional Weapons Array (5)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Cold Storage Units (5)
Feedback Pulse (9)
Ship SP: 79

Total Build SP: 89

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html

There were only 4 of us (the top 4 from the previous OP event I went to) that showed up for the OP event, and my opponents were a 1 Cube Dreadnought Flagship (Gavroche Blind Buy), a 1 Cube Dreadnought with Reinforcements Sideboard (Vorta Vor Blind Buy), and a Soong with Hideki Fighters (Yaeger Blind Buy).

The Soong I outplayed, the Reinforcements Cube made a serious error resulting in his ship ending up off the board (I might have still won, but it wouldn't have been a complete wipe), and the Flagship Cube seemed very wary of my ship and I took advantage of his hesitation.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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ejlittle wrote:
The first Collective OP1 Event I went to, the top 3 were all Borg.

I won a Collective OP1 Event with an Interceptor 5 Dreadnought w/ the Gavroche Blind Buy.

Resource: Flagship Independent (Fed) (10)

Interceptor 5 (16)
Weyoun (5)
Flagship (0)
Varel (11)
Klingon Boarding Party (6)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Additional Weapons Array (5)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Cold Storage Units (5)
Feedback Pulse (9)
Ship SP: 79

Total Build SP: 89

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html

There were only 4 of us (the top 4 from the previous OP event I went to) that showed up for the OP event, and my opponents were a 1 Cube Dreadnought Flagship (Gavroche Blind Buy), a 1 Cube Dreadnought with Reinforcements Sideboard (Vorta Vor Blind Buy), and a Soong with Hideki Fighters (Yaeger Blind Buy).

The Soong I outplayed, the Reinforcements Cube made a serious error resulting in his ship ending up off the board (I might have still won, but it wouldn't have been a complete wipe), and the Flagship Cube seemed very wary of my ship and I took advantage of his hesitation.


Just a few questions what is Flagship (0) my old eyes must be missing that card, and do you have to pay faction penalty points? How did you save on those? I think weyoun helps but not sure about the others.
 
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Thomas Ryan
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
tpryan01 wrote:
confirming there were no Borg lists at your OPs?


Their expense and lack of upgrades really hinders them in this scenario so the very few that we had over the course of the month did not fare very well. There were no Cube/Sphere winners for us.

I think Danvan's recap does a good job highlighting the Borg weaknesses in this scenario:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1205230/collective-op1-d...


you didn't really answer my question...were there any Borg lists at your event?
 
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Thomas Ryan
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ejlittle wrote:
The first Collective OP1 Event I went to, the top 3 were all Borg.

I won a Collective OP1 Event with an Interceptor 5 Dreadnought w/ the Gavroche Blind Buy.

Resource: Flagship Independent (Fed) (10)

Interceptor 5 (16)
Weyoun (5)
Flagship (0)
Varel (11)
Klingon Boarding Party (6)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Additional Weapons Array (5)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Cold Storage Units (5)
Feedback Pulse (9)
Ship SP: 79

Total Build SP: 89

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html

There were only 4 of us (the top 4 from the previous OP event I went to) that showed up for the OP event, and my opponents were a 1 Cube Dreadnought Flagship (Gavroche Blind Buy), a 1 Cube Dreadnought with Reinforcements Sideboard (Vorta Vor Blind Buy), and a Soong with Hideki Fighters (Yaeger Blind Buy).

The Soong I outplayed, the Reinforcements Cube made a serious error resulting in his ship ending up off the board (I might have still won, but it wouldn't have been a complete wipe), and the Flagship Cube seemed very wary of my ship and I took advantage of his hesitation.


I love your list. you also state one Borg flew off the board and one played defensively.
 
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Eric Little
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hadrian132 wrote:
Just a few questions what is Flagship (0) my old eyes must be missing that card, and do you have to pay faction penalty points? How did you save on those? I think weyoun helps but not sure about the others.


Flagships were the Dominion War OP4 participation prize. The actual cost of the Flagship is at the top of the list (10 points).

All of those cards are off-faction for that ship, so every single card cost 1 additional point; it's what made it possible to get close to 90 points on a 16 point ship.

Basically, the named ship's ability was my primary reason for flying this ship in particular. The ship can still take actions even when it bumps, which is AMAZING. I can ram into the front of a cube, energy dissipate it (if I get lucky), and follow up with a shot. Next turn, I move forward 1, bumping it, take my actions as normal. It moves forward 1 because it has to, bumping me and losing any actions it had. Wash rinse and repeat until it is dead.

I got very lucky that everyone was running dreadnought fleets. And only one guy in the local meta runs assimilation tubules, and swears by them. I think everyone found out this OP why he swears by them. Weyoun + Varel is some serious cheese and if you don't have a way to deal with it (i.e. O'Brien, Assimilation Tubules, bumping, multiple ships) it's hard to beat.

 
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Daniel van de Laar
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hadrian132 wrote:
ejlittle wrote:
The first Collective OP1 Event I went to, the top 3 were all Borg.

I won a Collective OP1 Event with an Interceptor 5 Dreadnought w/ the Gavroche Blind Buy.

Resource: Flagship Independent (Fed) (10)

Interceptor 5 (16)
Weyoun (5)
Flagship (0)
Varel (11)
Klingon Boarding Party (6)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Additional Weapons Array (5)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Cold Storage Units (5)
Feedback Pulse (9)
Ship SP: 79

Total Build SP: 89

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html

There were only 4 of us (the top 4 from the previous OP event I went to) that showed up for the OP event, and my opponents were a 1 Cube Dreadnought Flagship (Gavroche Blind Buy), a 1 Cube Dreadnought with Reinforcements Sideboard (Vorta Vor Blind Buy), and a Soong with Hideki Fighters (Yaeger Blind Buy).

The Soong I outplayed, the Reinforcements Cube made a serious error resulting in his ship ending up off the board (I might have still won, but it wouldn't have been a complete wipe), and the Flagship Cube seemed very wary of my ship and I took advantage of his hesitation.


Just a few questions what is Flagship (0) my old eyes must be missing that card, and do you have to pay faction penalty points? How did you save on those? I think weyoun helps but not sure about the others.


The flagship resource is listed above the ship that has the resource on it:

(shown above in build list) Resource: Flagship Independent (Fed) (10)

(shown as placeholder on ship) Flagship (0)




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Quote:
you didn't really answer my question...were there any Borg lists at your event?


What? What did you think this meant?

Quote:
Their expense and lack of upgrades really hinders them in this scenario so the very few that we had over the course of the month did not fare very well. There were no Cube/Sphere winners for us.


I did answer your question.
 
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Thomas Ryan
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
Quote:
you didn't really answer my question...were there any Borg lists at your event?


What? What did you think this meant?

Quote:
Their expense and lack of upgrades really hinders them in this scenario so the very few that we had over the course of the month did not fare very well. There were no Cube/Sphere winners for us.


I did answer your question.


that was...vague...how many lists in OP1 how did they do? I am trying to get a better feel than "Very few didn't do so well"

Also could people say there general location? (i.e. Western Massachusetts)you can out more detail if you want.
 
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Kristoff Bergenholm
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ejlittle wrote:


Basically, the named ship's ability was my primary reason for flying this ship in particular. The ship can still take actions even when it bumps, which is AMAZING. I can ram into the front of a cube, energy dissipate it (if I get lucky), and follow up with a shot. Next turn, I move forward 1, bumping it, take my actions as normal. It moves forward 1 because it has to, bumping me and losing any actions it had. Wash rinse and repeat until it is dead.



A cube will not lose actions when it runs into a tiny ship like that. It's on the Additional Rules card that came with it.
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D Conklin
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Non-Borg OP1 win here:
Re: The Admirals Club

Defeated Borg.
 
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Eric Little
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Magentawolf wrote:
ejlittle wrote:


Basically, the named ship's ability was my primary reason for flying this ship in particular. The ship can still take actions even when it bumps, which is AMAZING. I can ram into the front of a cube, energy dissipate it (if I get lucky), and follow up with a shot. Next turn, I move forward 1, bumping it, take my actions as normal. It moves forward 1 because it has to, bumping me and losing any actions it had. Wash rinse and repeat until it is dead.



A cube will not lose actions when it runs into a tiny ship like that. It's on the Additional Rules card that came with it.


Good catch! Just an example though with the Cube. Actually getting a cube to bump into you is pretty difficult.

It only ever came into play once in all 6 OP1 matches I've played in, and not being able to move/fire was a much bigger deal than any actions that may or may not have been lost from bumping.
 
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Xander Fulton
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hadrian132 wrote:
In our OP it looked the Borg were hardly touched by the BCT because of their movement dials and some Borg players were packing Transwarp and some other movement enhancing cookies.


That's how ours went, yeah.

The fact that the Borg ship had 'so few' upgrades to assimilate was largely irrelevant - their maneuver dial is just SO MUCH more flexible than anyone else's that it was easy for them to keep the enemy forces between them and the BCT...when it even WAS in range.

So the top scorers at our events were all Borg lists - winner was a totally-pimped-out Tactical Cube (running ind-Klingon flagship, as I recall).
 
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Larry DeStefano
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ejlittle wrote:
The first Collective OP1 Event I went to, the top 3 were all Borg.

I won a Collective OP1 Event with an Interceptor 5 Dreadnought w/ the Gavroche Blind Buy.

Resource: Flagship Independent (Fed) (10)

Interceptor 5 (16)
Weyoun (5)
Flagship (0)
Varel (11)
Klingon Boarding Party (6)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Additional Weapons Array (5)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Cold Storage Units (5)
Feedback Pulse (9)
Ship SP: 79

Total Build SP: 89

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html

There were only 4 of us (the top 4 from the previous OP event I went to) that showed up for the OP event, and my opponents were a 1 Cube Dreadnought Flagship (Gavroche Blind Buy), a 1 Cube Dreadnought with Reinforcements Sideboard (Vorta Vor Blind Buy), and a Soong with Hideki Fighters (Yaeger Blind Buy).

The Soong I outplayed, the Reinforcements Cube made a serious error resulting in his ship ending up off the board (I might have still won, but it wouldn't have been a complete wipe), and the Flagship Cube seemed very wary of my ship and I took advantage of his hesitation.


Must be doing something wrong. I can do everything except the Feedback Pulse...the software says there is no room for it? What am I missing?
thank you

larry
 
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Kenn Mikos
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ejlittle wrote:

I won a Collective OP1 Event with an Interceptor 5 Dreadnought w/ the Gavroche Blind Buy.

Resource: Flagship Independent (Fed) (10)

Interceptor 5 (16)
Weyoun (5)
Flagship (0)
Varel (11)
Klingon Boarding Party (6)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Additional Weapons Array (5)
Energy Dissipator (11)
Cold Storage Units (5)
Feedback Pulse (9)
Ship SP: 79

Total Build SP: 89



ejlittle wrote:
I won a Collective OP1 Event with an Interceptor 5 Dreadnought w/ the Gavroche Blind Buy.


ejlittle wrote:
Interceptor 5 Dreadnought


Dude. That is quite possibly the most bad-ass three-word phrase I've seen here.

I love that it's not just a silly "let's make an Interceptor dreadnought because we can" build, but it actually has a solid strategy behind it (one that evidently worked for you, no less).

My hat's off to you, sir...

OK, sorry for the hijack. Back to your scheduled Borg complaining...
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The first op1 i went to there was 3 borg lists and i think 1 placed 4th.

The one i went to this weekend i took first place but no borg lists (a couple people played with the soong but they werent borg fleets)

My list
Flagship independent klingon(10)
2nd Division Battle Cruiser(34)
Picard(7)
Invaluabel Advice(2)
Boheeka(2)
Remata'Klan(4)
Cold Storage Units(4)
Shroud(1)
Energy Dissipator(10)
Volley of Torpedoes(6)
Photon Torpedoes(5)
Secondary Torpedo Launcher(5)
(90)

K'T'Inga Class(22)
K'nera(4)
Qapla'(2)
Kunivas(2)
(30)

My last opponent quit on me and began to complain about how broken my build was (which it kind of is) and thats why he prefers to play at ship pure events. Even though if i used Dukat instead of picard and drop the STL(that never got used) it would have been faction pure and the match wouldnt have gone any different.
 
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Xander Fulton
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hadrian132 wrote:
Must be doing something wrong. I can do everything except the Feedback Pulse...the software says there is no room for it? What am I missing?


Click on the 'flagship' resource, so it starts flashing, then click on the ship name to 'apply' the resource to that ship.

The ind-Fed flagship adds a tech slot.

(That said, I wouldn't say this is necessarily a GOOD build, as it's far too fragile - enemy ships will cut through it with no problem, as soon as Weyoun is disabled and Varel goes away. Needs more buffers, really.)
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Thomas Ryan
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XanderF wrote:
hadrian132 wrote:
Must be doing something wrong. I can do everything except the Feedback Pulse...the software says there is no room for it? What am I missing?


Click on the 'flagship' resource, so it starts flashing, then click on the ship name to 'apply' the resource to that ship.

The ind-Fed flagship adds a tech slot.

(That said, I wouldn't say this is necessarily a GOOD build, as it's far too fragile - enemy ships will cut through it with no problem, as soon as Weyoun is disabled and Varel goes away. Needs more buffers, really.)


Sakonna might help...

I saw a D'kyr build that was similar. Weyoun/Varel seem to be the center of the build though so techy Vulcan tricks don't work as well. (oh, and you would need to add illia to any non-interceptor build)
 
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I won one with a single super-Cube, had plenty of stuff to feed the BCT, and had a Gavroche as my blind thing. There was one game that went to a roll-off for the winner because of mutual annihilation, my opponent also playing a cube, but I would have taken him out the previous turn anyway had there not been a dispute about a target lock that got knocked off the board. It was also a faction pure event, so that might affect how things went. I had to change my build up at the last minute because they hadn't put the specific ban list up on the Wizkids site and I had no idea. There's apparently another one this week so I'm thinking about trying pure Dominion and praying I get the attack ship.

The Borg movement was really helpful, except in one case where, due to my own stupidity, I set up just a little too close to the center of the board. The BCT was just barely blocking me going forward, and then it ended up behind me, and after that rammed me twice. Enemy ships and the edge of the board kept me from getting out of the way, so it was a pretty hilarious match.
 
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