Levi Petty
United States
Colorado
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As anybody who owns Hinterlands is aware, many cards from this expansion do stuff when you gain them or when you buy them, not just when you play them. So I was wondering: How much would these cards cost without these special on-buy/on-gain abilities? Some cards can be ignored, since, without their on-buy/gain abilities, they're exact duplicates of another card.
Poll
How much would these cards cost if they had no on-gain/on-buy effect?
  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8+
Embassy
Farmland
Ill-Gotten Gains
Inn
Mandarin
Noble Brigand
Nomad Camp
      23 answers
Poll created by Gubump


Embassy:
+5 cards
Discard 3 cards.
_________________________

When you gain this, each other player gains a Silver.
Normal Price: 5 coins
Type: Action

Farmland:
Worth 2 VP.
_________________________________

When you buy this, trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly 2 coins more than the trashed card.
Normal Price: 6 coins
Type: Victory

Ill-Gotten Gains:
Worth 1 coin.
When you play this, you may gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
__________________________________________

When you gain this, each other player gains a Curse.
Normal Price: 5 coins
Type: Treasure

Inn:
+2 cards
+2 actions
Discard 2 cards.
______________________________________

When you gain this, look through your discard pile(including this), reveal any number of Action cards from it, and shuffle them into your deck.
Normal Price: 5 coins
Type: Action

Mandarin:
+3 coins
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
________________________________________

When you gain this, put all Treasures you have in play on top of your deck in any order.
Normal Price: 5 coins
Type: Action

Noble Brigand:
+1 coin
When you buy this or play it, each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, and discards the rest. If he didn't reveal a Treasure, he gains a Copper. You gain the trashed cards.
Normal Price: 4 coins
Type: Action-Attack

Nomad Camp:
+1 buy
+2 coins
____________________________

When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.
Normal Price: 3 coins
Type: Action

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George I.
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Thanks for the thread. Here's my reasoning:


Embassy: $6. Given that "each other player gains a Silver" is a penalty, Embassy should be more expensive.

Farmland: n/a. Can't cost $3, as Tunnel gives 2VP and has a bonus. Can't cost $2, as Estate costs $2. So, this card can't exist.

Ill-Gotten Gains: $1. A cheaper pseudo-silver. Since though they're two coppers, $2 seems too much.

Inn: $2. It doesn't draw cards like the vanilla Village ($3) and it's a 2-card shifter. So, $2 like Hamlet and Cellar. Could also be $3, though, like Warehouse; it shifts through 2 cards (not 3), but gives +2 actions. Haven't completely made up my mind.

Mandarin: $4. Horse Traders ($4) gives +$3 by discarding 2 cards. Putting a card on the top of your deck is "equivalent" (see the penalties of Count, from Dark Ages). Putting all treasures on top-of-deck is a bonus, so Mandarin becomes cheaper.

Noble Brigand: $4. Still $4, as it's not worse than Thief.

Nomad Camp: n/a. It's Woodcutter, so $3.
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Levi Petty
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Picon wrote:
Nomad Camp: n/a. It's Woodcutter, so $3.


I sign that I haven't played the base set in a while: Woodcutter COMPLETELY slipped my mind. If I hadn't forgotten about Woodcutter, I would have excluded Nomad Camp, as well as Cache and Border Village.
 
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Jeremy Volk
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Eagan
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I agree with Picon for the most part, except that I would keep Embassy at $5. Gaining a Silver for me is usually neither a bonus nor a penalty. The Silver is just kind of there. This is especially true in Colony games.
 
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Simon Jester
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Ann Arbor
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Picon wrote:
Thanks for the thread. Here's my reasoning:


Embassy: $6. Given that "each other player gains a Silver" is a penalty, Embassy should be more expensive.

Farmland: n/a. Can't cost $3, as Tunnel gives 2VP and has a bonus. Can't cost $2, as Estate costs $2. So, this card can't exist.

Ill-Gotten Gains: $1. A cheaper pseudo-silver. Since though they're two coppers, $2 seems too much.

Inn: $2. It doesn't draw cards like the vanilla Village ($3) and it's a 2-card shifter. So, $2 like Hamlet and Cellar. Could also be $3, though, like Warehouse; it shifts through 2 cards (not 3), but gives +2 actions. Haven't completely made up my mind.

Mandarin: $4. Horse Traders ($4) gives +$3 by discarding 2 cards. Putting a card on the top of your deck is "equivalent" (see the penalties of Count, from Dark Ages). Putting all treasures on top-of-deck is a bonus, so Mandarin becomes cheaper.

Noble Brigand: $4. Still $4, as it's not worse than Thief.

Nomad Camp: n/a. It's Woodcutter, so $3.


Embassy - 6. Giving opponents a free Silver early can be a pretty stiff penalty.

Farmland - 3. I understand this makes it strictly worse than Tunnel. C'est la vie.

Ill-Gotten Gains - 2. I think this is a solid 2; it's a Silver when you need it and supports fat-deck strategies.

Inn - 4. I think it compares favorably to Village but +2 Cards-Discard 2 Cards is stronger than +1 card more often than not. At least in conjunction with + Actions.

Mandarin - 5. 5 is a good cost for +3 coins and an action that smooths out draws.

Noble Brigand - 4. Without its when-buy, it's still better than a 3.


Edit: This whole format looks strangely familiar...
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Matt E
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Zedsdead wrote:
Mandarin - 5. 5 is a good cost for +3 coins and an action that smooths out draws.


I agree with all of your assessments except this one. If top-decking a card were optional, I think $5 would be a good cost. Sometimes you'd love to top-deck a card. But more often than not, it's a penalty, and a significant one. Especially against discard attacks, it just kills your turn. I think it could probably work at $4.
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Donald X.
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For some years Inn did not have the when-gain ability. It cost $4. I didn't change it because of any issues with that card; I changed it because I wanted to do the when-gain and that was a good thing to pair it with.
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Merudo
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Asheville
NC
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Inn at $2 would be crazy cheap.

Inn is definitely better than Oasis - you get an extra card to sifter, and get an extra action instead of an extra $1.

Consider Village - you get the same +2 action, but with Inn you get sifter 2 instead of drawing 1. I'd say there are about equivalent, with sifter 2 being better in most settings.

Compare it to Warehouse, a good $3 card - you sifter one less card, but get another action instead. Again, I'd say Inn is slightly better than Warehouse.

I'd rank Inn as an excellent $3 card, and a terrible $4 one (worse than Walled Village).
 
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