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Dominion: Dark Ages» Forums » General

Subject: How much would certain cards cost without their on-trash effects? rss

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Levi Petty
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As anybody who owns Dark Ages knows, many cards from this expansion have effects upon being trashed. So I was wondering: How much do you think these cards would cost if they had no on-trash effects? Fortresses can be ignored, since they're just a village without their on-trash effect.
Poll
How much would these cards cost if they had no on-trash effect?
  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8+
Catacombs
Cultist
Feodum
Hunting Grounds
Sir Vander
Rats
Squire
      19 answers
Poll created by Gubump


Catacombs:
Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Choose one: Put them into your hand; or discard them and +3 cards.
_________________________________

When you trash this, gain a cheaper card.
Normal Price: 5 coins
Type: Action

Cultist:
+2 cards
Each other player gains a Ruins. You may play a Cultist from your hand.
____________________________________

When you trash this, +3 cards.
Normal Price: 5 coins
Type: Action-Attack-Looter

Feodum:
Worth 1 VP for every 3 Silvers in your deck(rounded down).
________________________
When you trash this, gain 3 Silvers.
Normal Price: 4 coins
Type: Victory

Hunting Grounds:
+4 cards
___________________________
When you trash this, gain a Duchy or 3 Estates.
Normal Price: 6 coins
Type: Action

Sir Vander:
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from 3 coins to 6 coins, and discards the rest. If a Knight is trashed by this, trash this card.
________________________________

When you trash this, gain a Gold.
Normal Price: 5 coins
Type: Action-Attack-Knight

Rats:
+1 card
+1 action
Gain a Rats. Trash a card from your hand other than a Rats(or reveal a hand of all Rats).
________________________

When you trash this, +1 card.
Normal Price: 4 coins
Type: Action

Squire:
+1 coin
Choose one: +2 actions; or +2 buys; or gain a Silver.
______________________________________

When you trash this, gain an Attack card.
Normal Price: 2 coins
Type: Action
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Matt E
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The thing about on-trash effects is that—with few exceptions—cards have to be well-costed even without that effect. Unlike on-gain effects, which always happen when you use the card, on-trash effects may never come into play. So most of these costs would be exactly the same.

The exceptions are Sir Vander and Rats. Sir Vander could cost $4, although it would look really lame next to other Knights that did something. Realistically, it wouldn't exist at all.

Much of Rats's power IS its cost. You're replacing cheaper cards with $4 cards. The other part of its power is the +1 Card effect. If you take out the on-trash effect, Rats doesn't work at any price. The cards that made Rats good enough (like Upgrade) would be too few for Rats to be worthwhile. The +1 Card on-trash makes Rats viable even with trashers that don't care about its cost (Forager, Junk Dealer, etc.). I voted $1, but that's only because there's no option for "This card doesn't work without its on-trash ability".
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Levi Petty
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LastFootnote wrote:
Sir Vander could cost $4, although it would look really lame next to other Knights that did something. Realistically, it wouldn't exist at all.


There's one thing you(and apparently several people who voted $4 for Sir Vander) are forgetting: Sir Martin. He costs $4, and he would be strictly stronger than Sir Vander without the on-trash effect. That's why I voted $3.
 
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Matt E
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Gubump wrote:
LastFootnote wrote:
Sir Vander could cost $4, although it would look really lame next to other Knights that did something. Realistically, it wouldn't exist at all.


There's one thing you(and apparently several people who voted $4 for Sir Vander) are forgetting: Sir Martin. He costs $4, and he would be strictly stronger than Sir Vander without the on-trash effect. That's why I voted $3.

I didn't forget that. I just think $4 is a better cost for the effect. Since we're talking in the context of magical theory land, I don't care that Sir Martin exists.
 
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Dr Who
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what is the objective of these posts?

 
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Matt E
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DrWhoWho wrote:
what is the objective of these posts?



I think it's to start discussions about Dominion. I enjoy talking about Dominion, so I am cool with it.
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Everette Robertson
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On-trash abilities don't have a fixed cost; the value of the on-trash ability can be very minor (as with Cultist, which would still be quite powerful without the on-trash bonus), an integral part of the card (i.e .Knights, with their on-trash ability to trash other knights), or else so significant that you don't usually don't buy the card if you can't trash it (Rats).

This is true for many other aspects of a card, as well. In some games, you'll buy Market over Bazaar because the +Buy is more important in that kingdom than the second +Action; in other games, you'll need a Village more than a +Buy. Similarly, the on-gain Bonus on Border-Village makes it cost $3 more than Village; but you buy Mandarin for its Terminal Gold ability, not for its on-gain bonus. Along the same lines, Stonemason is pretty awful without the overpay, but Herald is still a great card if you take off its overpay. And for Royal Seal, its ability to topdeck cards is worth $2 more than a silver, while Watchtower and Develop would either be weaker $3- or very strong $2-cost cards without their topdecking.

 
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LastFootnote wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:
what is the objective of these posts?



I think it's to start discussions about Dominion. I enjoy talking about Dominion, so I am cool with it.
If you're the type of gamer who enjoyed reading the designer diaries knowing the story the way things were originally laid out, balancing issues, and thematic considerations, then I too enjoy these conversations.

If all you care about are strategies and rules, then of course there are other parts of the forum for those.
 
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