Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
56 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

AquaSphere» Forums » News

Subject: TMG version on Kickstarter rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jacob Peck
United States
Baldwinsville
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
paperparachute games! http://games.suspended-chord.info/
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/michaelmindes/aquaspher...

Also offering copies of Rialto and Il Vecchio!
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Why Kickstarter?

All publishers are plagued with the same question, "How many copies should I print?" Behind that question are a lot of concerns, but it comes down to a surplus or a shortage. Both are bad.

Therefore, every single game should be Kickstarted.
22 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ori Avtalion
Israel
flag msg tools
Avatar
The sketch posted by TMG earlier (link) showed a girl scientist. Sad to see she's gone from the final cover.

I also preferred the bright & cheerful color palette used in earlier prototypes. Oh well
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terry Gwazdosky
United States
Clinton
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Octopeeples! 3: 3: 3: 3:
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Michaud
United States
Longwood
Florida
flag msg tools
On-Line Want List Generator - Hopefully Making Math Trades a Little Bit Easier
badge
Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, Captain Sisko, Captain Janeway, Captain Archer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
Quote:
Why Kickstarter?

All publishers are plagued with the same question, "How many copies should I print?" Behind that question are a lot of concerns, but it comes down to a surplus or a shortage. Both are bad.
Therefore, every single game should be Kickstarted.

that's a debate for another thread, however

so they are only going to print as many copies as are ordered via kickstarter? then I'm confused why they list an MSRP of USA$60 ??

After buying way too many games on spec (ie. based on research but not having actually played) I'm mostly a "try before I buy" type now.... this one is tempting, I'll try reading the rules... but really wish there was an online place to play this to know for sure if I want to buy...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JeffyJeff wrote:
so they are only going to print as many copies as are ordered via kickstarter? then I'm confused why they list an MSRP of USA$60 ??

No, they're printing additional copies. But KS is the way to guarantee you get one, because they can't figure out how many to print and thus you might not be able to get it at retail.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
so they are only going to print as many copies as are ordered via kickstarter? then I'm confused why they list an MSRP of USA$60 ??

No, they're printing additional copies. But KS is the way to guarantee you get one, because they can't figure out how many to print and thus you might not be able to get it at retail.

That sounds like sarcasm to me, but it's basically correct.

Using Kickstarter will help make sure fewer people might not be able to get it at retail, and also help make sure TMG isn't left sitting with way too much product and no cash in hand to work on the next few games.

You guys may not have seen them yet, but I really like those next games. I'll have some of them with me (in prototype form) at Strategicon in L.A. - if you'll be there you should find me and check them out. I'll be a guest, so it's likely there will be events for them in the schedule.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Evgeni Liakhovich
United States
Beaverton
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here is my biggest reservation for kickstarting this. Couple month prior to Rialto release, TMG announced that it will be available in the US simultaneously with the release in Europe (March/April 2013). What really happened is that Rialto became available in Europe in March, and in the US in late July (more than 4 month delay). I was able to buy Rialto at amazon.de for less then CSI would eventually charge for it.

I assume AquaShpere will be released at Essen time in Europe (October), while TMG is promising December release in the US. Is TMG firm on trying to meet this date, and if so, how are they going to avoid the issues that caused 4 month delay of Rialto?
6 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SaltyHorse wrote:
The sketch posted by TMG earlier (link) showed a girl scientist. Sad to see she's gone from the final cover.

I also preferred the bright & cheerful color palette used in earlier prototypes. Oh well

I also see that the R2D2 lookalike has been altered. that's probably wise

We're not in charge of the artwork, so I can't speak to any differences between the sketch and the final art.

I suppose one could print out that sketch and color it in (people had some fun coloring in the B&W card art for Harbour during that Kickstarter project)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Glad8r wrote:
Here is my biggest reservation for kickstarting this. Couple month prior to Rialto release, TMG announced that it will be available in the US simultaneously with the release in Europe (March/April 2013). What really happened is that Rialto became available in Europe in March, and in the US in late July (more than 4 month delay). I was able to buy Rialto at amazon.de for less then CSI would eventually charge for it.

I assume AquaShpere will be released at Essen time in Europe (October), while TMG is promising December release in the US. Is TMG firm on trying to meet this date, and if so, how are they going to avoid the issues that caused 4 month delay of Rialto?

TMG now has more staff, including a production manager to stay on top of schedules and shipping partners.

So far that has been helping issues like this a lot.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sedjtroll wrote:
Using Kickstarter will help make sure fewer people might not be able to get it at retail, and also help make sure TMG isn't left sitting with way too much product and no cash in hand to work on the next few games.

I'm curious, what is the formula for how many games to print, based on the number of KS backers? Is it even knowable? Does having more KS backers mean more copies need to be printed, or that more potential retail customers bought via KS instead and thus fewer need to be printed?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ralph Bruhn
Germany
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
SaltyHorse wrote:
The sketch posted by TMG earlier (link) showed a girl scientist. Sad to see she's gone from the final cover.

I also preferred the bright & cheerful color palette used in earlier prototypes. Oh well
That's easy to explain: Almost all people we asked about their opinion to the earlier draft told us that it looks like a children's game.
And I think it's really not a good idea to let a brain-burner look like a children's game ...
9 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Murr Rockstroh
United States
Fleming Island
Florida
flag msg tools
Pugs are like little people in fur coats.
badge
If it's not a Pug, it's just a dog.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
**sarcastically** Blah blah Kickstarter blah **sarcastically**

Who cares!

It's a Stefan Feld game for $40! (It looks nice too)
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darryl with one "R"
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:
Using Kickstarter will help make sure fewer people might not be able to get it at retail, and also help make sure TMG isn't left sitting with way too much product and no cash in hand to work on the next few games.

I'm curious, what is the formula for how many games to print, based on the number of KS backers? Is it even knowable? Does having more KS backers mean more copies need to be printed, or that more potential retail customers bought via KS instead and thus fewer need to be printed?

I've wondered the exact same thing for awhile. In fact, I'd love to get my hands on some KS & retail sales data to build a model around this exact idea...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ori Avtalion
Israel
flag msg tools
Avatar
barandur wrote:
That's easy to explain: Almost all people we asked about their opinion to the earlier draft told us that it looks like a children's game.
And I think it's really not a good idea to let a brain-burner look like a children's game ...

Thanks for the explanation! I hope one day, the "dour man" will become less dominant, and it will be accepted that grown-ups can have fun too
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Schmidt
United States
Harrogate
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah it's good to try and make it not look like a children's game but the current cover art is still failing to put it nicely. I'm no fan of the illustrator's past cover work or his "style" but in effort to keep this constructive, I strongly disagree with the design decision to have the cover be an interior view of the Aquasphere. The interior is well depicted on the game boards but we have no sense of what it looks like from the outside. The cover gives us little idea of what this undersea world is even like. How deep are we? Is it dark? What is the landscape like? Are we in the tropics, on the edge of a massive trench, or under the frozen icecap?

Take the upcoming Castles of Mad King Ludwig for example. Would it not be a huge misstep to replace the current cover of a talented rendering of a majestic castle with a amateurish cartoony castle throne room so we could see what this grumpy King Ludwig looks like?

The video ending huge Steven Feld in red letters over the sunken undersea something would be a huge improvement over the current cover and it even then would only be tolerable.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Frahm
United States
Queen Creek
AZ
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
curtc wrote:
Quote:
Why Kickstarter?

All publishers are plagued with the same question, "How many copies should I print?" Behind that question are a lot of concerns, but it comes down to a surplus or a shortage. Both are bad.

Therefore, every single game should be Kickstarted.


If every game were Kickstarted, there might be fewer duds sitting in clearance sales?

I think it is pretty wise for TMG to do crowdfunding. They can set somewhat of a baseline of interest in the game. A Feld is likely to do well, but I'm guessing that one/some of his previous titles were not as successful as publishers would have liked (Rialto, perhaps?).

If I were TMG, I'd like to know if I should print only 2,000 copies or maybe up to 5,000 based on the Kickstarter response. If they get 2,001 backers, they'll know that an initial print run would have been way too conservative.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Wißner
Germany
Augsburg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
Quote:
Why Kickstarter?

All publishers are plagued with the same question, "How many copies should I print?" Behind that question are a lot of concerns, but it comes down to a surplus or a shortage. Both are bad.

Therefore, every single game should be Kickstarted.


*Sarcasm*
And why stop at the publisher level? A FLGS could run a kickstarter to gauge how many copies to order from their distributor, to avoid the same risks of surplus or shortage...
*Sarcasm*
6 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:
Using Kickstarter will help make sure fewer people might not be able to get it at retail, and also help make sure TMG isn't left sitting with way too much product and no cash in hand to work on the next few games.

I'm curious, what is the formula for how many games to print, based on the number of KS backers? Is it even knowable? Does having more KS backers mean more copies need to be printed, or that more potential retail customers bought via KS instead and thus fewer need to be printed?

For a situation like ours, my experience has been that more KS backers definitely does NOT mean retailers will see less sales because everybody's bought their copy already. That's a relatively large misconception that's been around since the beginning of crowdfunding, and curiously still seems to exist today.

Look at games that sell well - they sell hundreds of thousands of copies. Selling 2 or 3k copies on Kickstarter does not satisfy all the demand for a game. In fact, the opposite... the best advertising for games is people playing them.

As far as the formula, or how to go about figuring all this stuff out, the only real way to do it is to publish games and crowdfund them. Give it a shot, and report back in 5 years.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Michaud
United States
Longwood
Florida
flag msg tools
On-Line Want List Generator - Hopefully Making Math Trades a Little Bit Easier
badge
Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, Captain Sisko, Captain Janeway, Captain Archer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sedjtroll wrote:
the best advertising for games is people playing them

which is why imho, as I mentioned in my post above, that all games should have an move based online version

Before the advent of "apps" and games had to be taken down from some sites, I ended up buying lots of physical copies of games I played first on www.spielbyweb.com for example. I think I've read somewhere here on BGG that electronic versions of board games have driven up sales of their physical versions (but don't quote me on that).

I would also think putting out an online version ahead of production of the physical game you'll get a lot more feedback about balance issues based on stats, than you ever could with your regular playtestings playing prototypes... such as like what happened for Terra Mystica after the fact about some balance issues.

As for someone saying, hey only $40 for a Feld title....

$40 is a lot of those of us who were buying board games before the prices started climbing... paying $40 and hoping I like it is more of a gamble than let's say what I paid for other Feld games (and ones I did play before buying)... and some of these have a lot more wood and cardboard...

Bora Bora
Price Paid: USD 35.00
Acquisition Date: 2013-09-18
Acquired From: timewellspent.org

Trajan
Price Paid: USD 35.99
Quantity: 1
Acquisition Date: 2012-10-26
Acquired From: coolstuffinc.com

Macao
Price Paid: USD 27.87
Acquisition Date: 2010-06-27
Acquired From: miniaturemarket.com

In the year of the Dragon
Price Paid: USD 29.22
Acquisition Date: 2008-04-08
Acquired From: thoughthammer

Notre Dame
Price Paid: USD 23.97
Acquisition Date: 2007-10-01
Acquired From: boardsandbits
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sedjtroll wrote:
For a situation like ours, my experience has been that more KS backers definitely does NOT mean retailers will see less sales because everybody's bought their copy already. That's a relatively large misconception that's been around since the beginning of crowdfunding, and curiously still seems to exist today.

I agree. Especially in this case. Clearly there's a spectrum of the benefit (or perception thereof) of backing a project versus waiting until it hits retail. Contrast AquaSphere with with Amerigo, for example, which included 4 promo mini expansions (and some lame art, and a small game). The promos in particular were a significant draw to back the project as opposed to wait for retail. And then the reviews ended up being lukewarm, so the information and incentives people had when making retail purchase decisions was vastly different from that which backers had. Assuming AquaSphere turns out to be decent, I would thus expect it to have a higher multiplier for retail sales than Amerigo.

As I said, I'm really just curious what the model is. 1 KS preorder = n copies to print? Breakpoints where n changes? Etc.

Whatever the model is, add a +1 at the end for my copy. laugh
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MiWi wrote:

*Sarcasm*
And why stop at the publisher level? A FLGS could run a kickstarter to gauge how many copies to order from their distributor, to avoid the same risks of surplus or shortage...
*Sarcasm*


And for games which are expensive and very niche, taking preorder/special orders is likely the way a games store will do, whereas for a game which is likely to generate a large number of sales by people walking in and seeing it, it won't make sense.

B>
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Cody
United States
Columbus
OH
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
never understand why people say "we want to make sure we make enough copies" instead of just creating a preorder if that is all it is.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Pile
United States
College Park
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JeffyJeff wrote:
Notre Dame
Price Paid: USD 23.97
Acquisition Date: 2007-10-01
Acquired From: boardsandbits


Boards and Bits!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Seifert
United States
Little Canada
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wccody wrote:
never understand why people say "we want to make sure we make enough copies" instead of just creating a preorder if that is all it is.


Because, contrary to popular belief, Kickstarter gets more user hits than TMG's website.

Anyway, it looks like TMG is offering Il Vecchio on Amazon cheaper than it is on the Kickstarter (if you qualify for free shipping). Thought that was funny.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.