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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shards of the Throne» Forums » Rules

Subject: Arborec Race Tech rss

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Michael Krueger
Germany
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Hello,

i have got a question according to the wording on the Bioplasmosis card...

“At the beginning of the Strategy Phase, you may move 1 Ground Force from a planet you control to a friendly or uncontrolled planet in an adjacent system. (Discard any Domain Counters on the planet).”

in my opinion i can do this as often as i have planets with GF on them, because of the wording a planet.

otherwise there would be written somethin like 1 GF to 1 planet or "just do this once a turn".

the only restriction is that you can only move 1 GF from a planet even if there are more than one.

thats why i like the arborec because we play with the distant sun counters and that is a big advantage at the beginning of the game.
if you can move only one GF in the strategy phase it would be much much weaker.

as always i hope you get what i mean, i am not really jused to write in english.

thanks^^.

Syrophir
 
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Scott Lewis
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You can only move 1 GF during the status phase. It's not once-per-planet.
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Jonathan Challis
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I'm sorry but "a planet" doesn't in any way imply what you think it does. At least in English. Allows it, but in no way implies it.

You can move 1 GF total per Status Phase.
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Mattias Elfström
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This rule could be much clearer worded. From a logic perspective it could be interpreted as "once per planet", but I agree with what the others have posted - it is a one time ability.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Mattias wrote:
This rule could be much clearer worded. From a logic perspective it could be interpreted as "once per planet", but I agree with what the others have posted - it is a one time ability.

It could be, but I think it's a pretty big stretch. To me, it's pretty clear what the restriction is.

Perhaps in this case it's due to native languages. I think what Jonathan and I are saying is that while it possibly COULD be, it's kind of a stretch given the context of how things are written in the sentence. However, to those that don't use English as their first language, the subtleties of context may not be as apparent.
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Jonathan Challis
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sigmazero13 wrote:

Perhaps in this case it's due to native languages. I think what Jonathan and I are saying is that while it possibly COULD be, it's kind of a stretch given the context of how things are written in the sentence. However, to those that don't use English as their first language, the subtleties of context may not be as apparent.


Spot on.

Put another way, my training in formal notation agrees this is not an unambiguous way to word the card as you parse it word by word. As English, it is very clear however.

English is a very ambiguous language compared to most, and native speakers can generally immediately discern what something means, even when other interpretations could be parsed. It's what makes it such a poor natural language for specification purposes, and why we use pseudocode and formal methods for software architecture. I can see why this is much harder for native speakers of other more sensible languages which are much more rule-constrained (and of course Latin is best of all).
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Mattias Elfström
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Judging from the flags here we are all speakers of Germanic languages (English, German and Swedish). They are all quite similar in structure. Latin however is of a completely different language family.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Mattias wrote:
Judging from the flags here we are all speakers of Germanic languages (English, German and Swedish). They are all quite similar in structure. Latin however is of a completely different language family.

Similar, perhaps, but English is a hodgepodge of a lot of languages, and has a LOT of syntactical exceptions, nuances, problems, etc.

I stand by what I said though - to me, the wording on the card is very clear based on how the word "a" is used in the sentence as compared with the "1 GF" bit. It takes a bit of stretching to make it fit an "each" definition in this sense.
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Roberto Armentia
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Language has nothing to do here. The same meaning or interpretation you may find in Spanish "1 gf desde un planeta" or in German "1 gf von einem planeten".
 
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Mattias Elfström
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Or Swedish: "1 GF från en planet".

One complication here is that the indefinite article in Swedish ("en") is the same word as the word for "one" ("1").

In the English rule the problem stems from the fact that the indefinite article can be used to refer to any planet as in "the unit is placed on a planet".

Note that I still agree that the rule is good enough as is and that the interpretation is clear enough given the context.
 
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bob mackenzie
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cool race tech, too bad it says friendly or neutral system :/ useless late game. but yeah guys above are right the wording does mean only 1 planet. house rule in u could move to enemy system the chaos hehe
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Jonathan Challis
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Mattias wrote:

One complication here is that the indefinite article in Swedish ("en") is the same word as the word for "one" ("1").


French has a similar problem. I maintain it is a language issue - not in what the words say (in any language) but in what they are readily grasped to mean, which is full of context in how that word is used in that language, not just how it translates.

Just look how 'Kennerspeil' becomes 'expert games' to everyone except the Germans. Yes, kenner=expert, but the connotation in this context is different. I think that is exactly the same problem we have here.
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Michael Krueger
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You seem to be pretty sure, so will believe what you say... and start to dislike the arborec.

i study german law so i dont read something in englisch very often but if this rule would be translated into german and they would use the indefinite article "einem Planeten" you would read it like the 1gf makes clear the number of gf and the "a/einem planet/Planeten" refers to the condition that you have to controll it.

so sorry for my missunderstanding but like i said above i am pretty sure in german it would be the other way at least you would have enough arguments du discuss it like lawyers do every day^^.
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