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Subject: Euro for 2+ players rss

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Tomáš Sládek
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Sooo... let me elaborate a bit, as I'm looking for something a bit specific. I'm looking for a game that has the following qualities:
1) Plays well with two, but supports more players
2) Gameplay doesn't change much with number of players
3) Eurogame - some math, analysis, strategy. Less luck, esp. not much dice
4) Game time 2 hours, TOPS. Less preferred.
BONUS points:
5) Nicely tied in theme and good production values (judging from my collection I'm more of an AT than Euro fan, 's why I'm looking for a new Euro)

To give you an example of what I'm looking for, from best to less so, and why I'm looking for something else:
Dungeon Lords - PERFECT. But the atmosphere and gameplay of impending doom and minimizing damage really annoys me, so much so that I can only play it every so often
Agricola - a friend has it, getting it for myself not priority
Pillars of Earth - got tired of it
Puerto Rico - kinda ugly, also a friend has it

So there, I'd be ever grateful if you though of any other games upon reading this.

My attention was caught by first and foremost Lords of Waterdeep, does it satisfy all the thing I'm looking for? Also Tikal and Galaxy Trucker, but I'm less sure about how those fit my requirements...
 
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Kevin Garnica
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Village
Carson City
New Amsterdam
Bruxelles 1893
Russian Railroads
 
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Jesse
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Just for the record, Galaxy Truckers is as Ameritrash as games come. It has to be one of the most random, luck-based games out there that still is somehow rated well.

I would go for Terra Mystica. It's just amazeballs! Our four player games usually last 90 minutes. The first game might push over 2 hours just a smidge, particularly is anyone has AP. You'll wonder why you've wasted your time on random Ameritrash games all these years, when games this good-hearted existed.

You also might like Archipelago. It's primarily a Euro with some more hybrid/Ameritrash elements thrown in (but not much). It's very thematic, too. Also, very beautiful.
 
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Justin Fuhrmann
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I agree that Galaxy Trucker does not fit the requirements you listed. There's a ton of luck in that one. "Math, strategy, and some analysis" really don't fit here.

I'd recommend:

Goa
Troyes - has dice, but there are ways to mitigate bad rolls, and you can buy other people's dice. And even if you roll low, there's usually something useful you can still do with the dice.
Power Grid + Power Grid: The Robots - Definitely hits on the math, strategy, and analysis. The robots is a cheap expansion that is absolutely necessary to make this work with 2p.
 
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Shane Hockin
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+1 Village
+1 Troyes

Both of those are among my favorite Euros and play the same, more or less, with 2-4 people.

Also recommend:

Glen More
Le Havre (though it is longish with more than 2)
London
 
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HenningK
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As much as I love Power Grid and especially Terra Mystica (seriously, best game ever), both of these games are significantly weaker if played with only 2 players. In fact, I wouldn't even recommend Power Grid with 2.

Stone Age might fit your criteria even though it has dice. Even so, I think it has more depth and less luck than Lords of Waterdeep, but Waterdeep is a fine game as well.
 
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Jesse
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Trantor42 wrote:
As much as I love Power Grid and especially Terra Mystica (seriously, best game ever), both of these games are significantly weaker if played with only 2 players. In fact, I wouldn't even recommend Power Grid with 2.

Stone Age might fit your criteria even though it has dice. Even so, I think it has more depth and less luck than Lords of Waterdeep, but Waterdeep is a fine game as well.


I forgot about the has to be good with two players part. I retract both of my suggestions.

How about Le Havre? Trajan is also pretty fantastic.
 
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Ladson
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Lords of Waterdeep would suck with 2.
 
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Tomáš Sládek
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Thanks for the tips, so far I like Village most - Russian Railroads seems cool too, but I think I would have trouble convincing people to try them due to the theme ("Railroads? Eh, why not just play TtR?"), so I'd rather go for something more unique thematically.

There's been an old game that caught my fancy years ago and I forgot about it since - Cuba. How does that one fare 2p? Is it similar to Pillars? Maybe TOO similar?

And since you mention Le Havre, what about Caverna? The theme seems much more appealing and ladies just love the animal meeples :-)
 
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HenningK
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Russian Railroads plays nothing like TtR. It is a lot more abstract and uses totally different mechanics. I think it has little innovation and it is one of the dryest games I ever played, but there is no doubt that the mechanics work very well. As you sound like theme is important to you, I wouldn't really recommend it to you.

I haven't played Cuba so I can't comment.

Caverna is great, but it is quite heavy. You will need quite some practice to get a game done in under 2 hours. Just setting it up can be a 15-20 minute affair, and with 48 buildings to choose from right from the start, many players need like 15 minutes to just read and comprehend all of them, not to mention the time needed to think which ones to build.
I actually prefer its older cousin Agricola, but that really is a matter of taste (Agricola is meaner, more punishing and has more variety, while Caverna is more relaxed, open and has a "do whatever you like" feeling attached to it).
 
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Chris Morse
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You should check out Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar. Absolutely checks all your boxes and, on top of that, it's pretty, as Euros go.

I think Waterdeep is fine with 2 players (toss out the mandatory quests) but is definitely a lighter game. Good when you or your partner are not in the mood to think too hard.

Village is good, and a little more challenging, but it's not up to the level of Tzolk'in.
 
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HenningK
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Scottgun wrote:
Lords of Waterdeep would suck with 2.


I strongly disagree with this. You get a lot more done with 2 players which is nice, and since all your intrigue cards go towards the same opponent, there is no kingmaking.
Actually, I think Lords of Waterdeep is one of the few Euros that work just as well with 2 players as with 3 or 4 (Stone Age is another example).
2 
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Trantor42 wrote:
Scottgun wrote:
Lords of Waterdeep would suck with 2.


I strongly disagree with this. You get a lot more done with 2 players which is nice,


Ewww....

Don't do it OP! LoW is a good game and is worthwhile addition to most collections, but when you have just two players, you are going to pass on it for better-suited games.
 
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Tomáš Sládek
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You sure have strong feelings about that...

Right now from what I've read I'm mostly considering Cuba vs Village, though. A lto of people say LoW is a gateway to WP games, not sure I want to go for something that simple.

When I consider other gateway stuff I have like TtR, Carcassonne or Takenoko... Well, Runewars, Dunegon Lords or Sid's Civ is more up my alley. Have to balance it out with my group preferences, though, they aren't as much into the heavy stuff.

Getting a bit OT: I harbour a strong dislike for TtR over the years. People tend to love it for it's simplicity, but that's exactly the downfall for me. Never feels like I'm making any meaningful choices.
 
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Daniel Koepke
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+1 Lords of Waterdeep (I've played a ton of it 2 player and it is just as fun as with 4, 5, and 6 players.)
+1 Power Grid
+1 Village
+1 Carcasonne
+1 Agricola
+1 Puerto Rico
The Castles of Burgundy


All are excellent games at 2+ players. I play all these games with my wife and with a larger (i.e. 5-6) group.
 
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Tomáš Sládek
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So after consulting my girlfriend it's come down to Caverna/Village/LoW/Cuba

Anyone know more about Cuba? Mix of PR, Caylus, Pillars mechanics with a tropican feel... It looks good, but quite often what seems good doesn't neccesarily have to be good when actually playing.

I'm thinking since both Caverna and LoW are on the higher end of the price range (esp. Caverna, hot damn that's pricey), I'd go and get Village/Cuba + some other smaller game (fancying Last Will atm).
 
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David B
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I bet you would like Lancaster.
 
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Shelby Buttimer
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Borghal wrote:

Dungeon Lords - PERFECT. But the atmosphere and gameplay of impending doom and minimizing damage really annoys me, so much so that I can only play it every so often


Have you looked at Dungeon Petz? Very similar and MUCH nicer theme.

Quote:
My attention was caught by first and foremost Lords of Waterdeep, does it satisfy all the thing I'm looking for? Also Tikal and Galaxy Trucker, but I'm less sure about how those fit my requirements...


Lords of Waterdeep plays fine with 2, but it's more fun with more players.
 
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Tomáš Sládek
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ShelbyB wrote:

Have you looked at Dungeon Petz? Very similar and MUCH nicer theme.

Oh yes I know about that one :-) My beef with Vlaada's Dungeon line is not the theme anyway, I loved the PC Dungeon keeper games of old and Lords seems more attractive than Petz actually, I had to get it as soon as it was out :-). It's the feeling you get during gameplay, one that Agricola (Hence me thinking about Caverna instead) and In the year of the Dragon shares and from what I've read Petz does too - where you feel like you are building something but at the same time the game keeps you under pressure of failing some conditions that everyone must adhere to and are there just for the sake of meeting them - paying tax, feeding meeples, etc. I'd like the building gameplay of Lords and Agricola without the negative constrictions, merely on a "who optimized their actions beter" gameplay note.
So that's why I'm not considering any of the abovementioned games save for Caverna, which seems to have a more "relaxed" attitude from what I read.
 
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Dan Wojciechowski
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Based on my experience, games that might meet your requirements:

The Castles of Burgundy (small amount of dice)
Dominion
Race for the Galaxy
Carcassonne
Saint Petersburg
Samurai
Suburbia
Macao (small amount of dice)
The Speicherstadt
Stone Age (small amount of dice)
 
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Shelby Buttimer
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Borghal wrote:
ShelbyB wrote:

Have you looked at Dungeon Petz? Very similar and MUCH nicer theme.

Oh yes I know about that one :-) My beef with Vlaada's Dungeon line is not the theme anyway, I loved the PC Dungeon keeper games of old and Lords seems more attractive than Petz actually, I had to get it as soon as it was out :-). It's the feeling you get during gameplay, one that Agricola (Hence me thinking about Caverna instead) and In the year of the Dragon shares and from what I've read Petz does too - where you feel like you are building something but at the same time the game keeps you under pressure of failing some conditions that everyone must adhere to and are there just for the sake of meeting them - paying tax, feeding meeples, etc. I'd like the building gameplay of Lords and Agricola without the negative constrictions, merely on a "who optimized their actions beter" gameplay note.
So that's why I'm not considering any of the abovementioned games save for Caverna, which seems to have a more "relaxed" attitude from what I read.


If you don't like that kind of directed planning pressure (I must have X at the end of this round!) I would recommend Lords of Waterdeep out of your list. I can't say much about Caverna since I haven't tried it, but I know LoW is free of that.

You might look into Stephan Feld games. I very much enjoyed Bruges and I liked Trajan well enough. Most of his games are point fests where there are lots of ways to get points, and some people make a very valid point that the theme can have a pasted on feel, but they're still well designed games.

You might also look into Coal Baron too. We just picked that up recently and feel like it's definitely an underrated WP game. We enjoy it with two, although I do think it's a little unbalanced.
 
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Kasper Lauest
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+1 Dominion
+1 Troyes
+1 Stefan Feld games

Most Stefan Feld games would have what you're looking for, EXCEPT theme. Castles Of Burgundy is a good starting point.

But really, if you haven't played Dominion, I would start there.

Borghal wrote:
So after consulting my girlfriend it's come down to Caverna/Village/LoW/Cuba

Anyone know more about Cuba? Mix of PR, Caylus, Pillars mechanics with a tropican feel... It looks good, but quite often what seems good doesn't neccesarily have to be good when actually playing.

I'm thinking since both Caverna and LoW are on the higher end of the price range (esp. Caverna, hot damn that's pricey), I'd go and get Village/Cuba + some other smaller game (fancying Last Will atm).

Of those, I would go with Caverna, but that is indeed fairly expensive.
 
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Tyler
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Trajan seems to meet your criteria, and I'll especially say that it scales very, very well from 2-4 players. I'll also say +1 for Suburbia.
 
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Jason Coeyman
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Tomas, I suggest you look into the recently reprinted by Zman game Vikings.

Works great with 2, 3, or 4. Feels about the same with any player, however with less players you draft more tiles.

It's hard to explain it, but basically its a open pool drafting game of randomly placed land tiles/vikings, having some pseudo-auction type mechanics, and some spacial tile laying elements.

One of my favorite games for new players and it just gets more cutthroat as people learn the game and become more experienced.
 
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Will Plante
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I would try to play a game of Caverna before you commit that much $ on a. Single game. I overpaid and was quite disappointed (I was able to trade it though). My family and I played 6 games with 2,3 and 4 players and it was okay, but I really dislike how all the buildings are available from the beginning. Having just played Agricola, I much prefer that game due to the card play. You still have to feed in Caverna and while it is easier it can still set you back if you don't plan well.

2 suggestions: Glass Road - everything you are looking for in a 45 - 60 minute package. Awesome game!

The Palaces of Carrara - you would have to order through Amazon.de, but I paid under $40 including shipping. Another great game that plays in an hour, but has Ana maxing amount of replay value.

Good luck,
Will
 
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