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Subject: Loan Shark and Wolfgang Buttercup or Complex Scheme rss

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Gillum the Stoor
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The Loan Shark holding card says, "When you play Holding, remove a marker from it."

This is basically saying that each holding, when played, gets one marker fewer than it would if you didn't have Loan Shark.

The Zoning Office holding card says, "When you play another Holding, gain $5,000."

Since Loan Shark (unlike Zoning Office) doesn't say "another Holding," does it apply to itself?

The thug card Wolfgang Buttercup says, "When you play a Holding, place an extra marker on it." If I had Wolfgang when I played Loan Shark, Loan Shark would get a marker due to Wolfgang - or does Loan Shark prevent itself from getting this marker?

The action card Complex Scheme says, "Next turn, any time you play a Holding, place 3 extra markers on it." If I play Loan Shark the turn after I play Complex Scheme, Loan Shark would get three markers - or does Loan Shark cause itself to get only 2?
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Donald X.
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gillum wrote:
The Loan Shark holding card says, "When you play Holding, remove a marker from it."

This is basically saying that each holding, when played, gets one marker fewer than it would if you didn't have Loan Shark.

The Zoning Office holding card says, "When you play another Holding, gain $5,000."

Since Loan Shark (unlike Zoning Office) doesn't say "another Holding," does it apply to itself?

The thug card Wolfgang Buttercup says, "When you play a Holding, place an extra marker on it." If I had Wolfgang when I played Loan Shark, Loan Shark would get a marker due to Wolfgang - or does Loan Shark prevent itself from getting this marker?

The action card Complex Scheme says, "Next turn, any time you play a Holding, place 3 extra markers on it." If I play Loan Shark the turn after I play Complex Scheme, Loan Shark would get three markers - or does Loan Shark cause itself to get only 2?

Complex Scheme and Wolfgang Buttercup modify how many markers a holding gets when played (and so do a few other cards, e.g. Joe's Gin Joint). Loan Shark removes a marker from a holding directly after playing it. So Loan Shark applies after those other abilities, thus sometimes removing a marker from a holding that wouldn't have gotten any without Complex Scheme etc.

Loan Shark applies to itself since it doesn't specify otherwise.
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Christian K
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But there is a timing conflict here right? There is no way of knowing if the marker from wolfgang is added before or after the marker from Loan shark is removed (or rather, the only way to know is to aak you). I am just asking because I thought the other rules questions could be answered by reading the rulebook carefully and the answers were somehow logical.
 
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Donald X.
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Muemmelmann wrote:
But there is a timing conflict here right? There is no way of knowing if the marker from wolfgang is added before or after the marker from Loan shark is removed (or rather, the only way to know is to aak you). I am just asking because I thought the other rules questions could be answered by reading the rulebook carefully and the answers were somehow logical.

Yes.

In the prototype there was a general rule: gain then lose then count. So if I played "Gain $10" and you played "Everyone else loses $10" I would gain $10 and then lose $10. When they numbered the cards, I figured they'd use the numbers for ordering effects that happened at the same time (in addition to ordering basic card resolutions), and picked the numbers with that in mind - Wolfgang Buttercup has a lower number than Loan Shark. They didn't do that though; so yes, all there is is asking me.
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Christian K
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Very interesting, thanks for sharing that.
 
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