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Subject: Attacking Population rss

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Marshall Case
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I get the mechanics of attacking a population, my question is: why would you want to attack someone's population?

As far as I know (three games in) when you attack a population, the cubes go to the trash (which means your enemies' income is unchanged) and the disc goes back to his influence track (which means that he pays less in the future). Based on these two things, you'd be giving them free resources without having to pay the influence it normally does, helping them.

Is that right?!
 
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Paul M
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That is right, but you cannot place YOUR influence disc into a hex without first removing ALL of your opponent's population.
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Peter Bakija
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Taffyrooster wrote:
I get the mechanics of attacking a population, my question is: why would you want to attack someone's population?


You need to kill their population so you can take their systems. If you don't kill their population cubes, you can't conquer the system with your own disc.

Quote:
As far as I know (three games in) when you attack a population, the cubes go to the trash (which means your enemies' income is unchanged) and the disc goes back to his influence track (which means that he pays less in the future). Based on these two things, you'd be giving them free resources without having to pay the influence it normally does, helping them.

Is that right?!


Kind of? Yes. For the turn where you kill their population and take over their system, they get that disc back and get that income. But then the cubes go back. And on the next turn, they *don't* get that income. And are down a system. Which gives them VPs.

When you take people's systems away, they do worse. Yeah, there is a booby prize in that they get the income that turn. But then the cubes get put back on the track and their economy dwindles.
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Charles Finch
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Until next turn when he doesn't have them
And of course u can place your influence marker to get resources....
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Joseph
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Taffyrooster wrote:
I get the mechanics of attacking a population, my question is: why would you want to attack someone's population?

As far as I know (three games in) when you attack a population, the cubes go to the trash (which means your enemies' income is unchanged) and the disc goes back to his influence track (which means that he pays less in the future). Based on these two things, you'd be giving them free resources without having to pay the influence it normally does, helping them.

Is that right?!


But after the turn is over, then the population goes back on the population tracks.
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Marshall Case
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ElCid91 wrote:
Taffyrooster wrote:
I get the mechanics of attacking a population, my question is: why would you want to attack someone's population?

As far as I know (three games in) when you attack a population, the cubes go to the trash (which means your enemies' income is unchanged) and the disc goes back to his influence track (which means that he pays less in the future). Based on these two things, you'd be giving them free resources without having to pay the influence it normally does, helping them.

Is that right?!


But after the turn is over, then the population goes back on the population tracks.

Then what is the graveyard for?
 
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Mikko Saari
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To make the blow of losing a system a bit softer.
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Trevor Schadt
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Taffyrooster wrote:
Then what is the graveyard for?
So that the events of the Combat Phase -- which are generally decided by random die rolls -- cannot cause a player to go completely bankrupt and be kicked out of the game because they were counting on income that turns out to no longer be there.

So that the setback of losing the system and the associated resources in future turns is not also compounded by losing the resources you can use to start to build yourself back up.
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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Taffyrooster wrote:
But after the turn is over, then the population goes back on the population tracks.

Then what is the graveyard for?[/q]

They go on the graveyard during Combat Phase.
Income is settled during Upkeep Phase.
Cubes are returned from the graveyard during Cleanup Phase.
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Peter Bakija
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Taffyrooster wrote:
Then what is the graveyard for?


You kill their guys in combat. You put those cubes onto the graveyard spot. During their "generate resources" phase, they get resources for the tracks as they are with the extra cubes on the graveyard spot. After generating resources, at the end of the turn, you put the cubes back on the tracks.

The graveyard is a booby prize. You lost your system. But at least you got the income it generated this turn. Which is something. But at the end of the turn, the cubes go back on the tracks as appropriate.
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Marcel van der pol
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The main reason for attacking the population is because you want to:

1) Common: Take over the system. This requires removing their influence disc which only happens once ALL population is destroyed.

2) Less Common: you want to slow down the enemy. Even if all population is removed and influence disc removed you might not want the system for yourself (because for example you don't have the Advanced techs your opponent has) but you DO want to hurt the enemy. In this case, while the enemy is not hurt during the turn in which you destroyed the system, in the next turn the enemy will need to spend Actions (Influence) to get the system back; on top of this Colony Ships are required to replace the population cubes. This takes time and effort and will distract your enemy from doing other things.

The reason why the Graveyard is there is because you CANNOT go bankrupt due to losing population in the Combat Phase. Your population will still count for your income that turn, regardless of whether or not you remove the Influence Disc and take the system for yourself. The enemy will need to account for losing the system next turn though.

Its a bit "inelegant" that the population still produces that turn (and if you take the system and put down your own population, the system will actually produce twice that turn) but I can see the downside of being able to FORCE a bankruptcy in an enemy.
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Peter Bakija
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marcelvdpol wrote:
The main reason for attacking the population is because you want to:


For the sake of clarity, I'm pretty sure that the main issue in the original question was not actually:

"Why is it advantageous to attack opposing players' hexes and population?"

but instead:

"I misunderstood how the graveyard rule works, and thought the cubes stayed there forever."
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Locke Balenska
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marcelvdpol wrote:
Its a bit "inelegant" that the population still produces that turn (and if you take the system and put down your own population, the system will actually produce twice that turn) but I can see the downside of being able to FORCE a bankruptcy in an enemy.


You can explain anything through the theme if you imagine it out enough

ie: your expert scientists are studying tachyon particle decay in a research station on Pollux IV, and they're hooked up to your civilization's space-internet. At the end of the space-year a terrifying Mechanema Dreadnaught fleet shows up to bomb the crap out of your scientists on Pollux IV. All the research they've been doing all year was still uploaded onto your space-internet, so you should still get research points for it.

Meanwhile, the Mechanema scientists that drop down to the planet find some of your research notes, letting them skip the 4 months of tediously repeating an experiment you had to do, so they get a boost in research, too. (Or, if they're jerks, they capture and interrogate your fleeing scientists and beat the research secrets out of them)

Of course, the vast majority of your populace on Pollux IV died, so you don't have to pay them their salary at the end of the year, hence a bit less debt from influence discs! Whatever life insurance their families had was through a private corporation and you don't have to worry about it.

Money planet? The attacker auctions off the exotic relics of your civilization to private bidders within their own civilization. (or, if they're jerks, they make the money ransoming prisoners of war back to their families)

Material planet? The attacker captures your laser drills and material refineries, so they can start producing right away whereas you spent 4 months building that infrastructure (Or, if they're jerks, they use the scraps of your buildings and ships for free materials)
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Marcel van der pol
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Quote:
You can explain anything through the theme if you imagine it out enough

ie: your expert scientists are studying tachyon particle decay in a research station on Pollux IV, and they're hooked up to your civilization's space-internet. At the end of the space-year a terrifying Mechanema Dreadnaught fleet shows up to bomb the crap out of your scientists on Pollux IV. All the research they've been doing all year was still uploaded onto your space-internet, so you should still get research points for it.

Meanwhile, the Mechanema scientists that drop down to the planet find some of your research notes, letting them skip the 4 months of tediously repeating an experiment you had to do, so they get a boost in research, too. (Or, if they're jerks, they capture and interrogate your fleeing scientists and beat the research secrets out of them)

Of course, the vast majority of your populace on Pollux IV died, so you don't have to pay them their salary at the end of the year, hence a bit less debt from influence discs! Whatever life insurance their families had was through a private corporation and you don't have to worry about it.

Money planet? The attacker auctions off the exotic relics of your civilization to private bidders within their own civilization. (or, if they're jerks, they make the money ransoming prisoners of war back to their families)

Material planet? The attacker captures your laser drills and material refineries, so they can start producing right away whereas you spent 4 months building that infrastructure (Or, if they're jerks, they use the scraps of your buildings and ships for free materials)


So if the system gets conquered it actually produces MORE than if it doesn't? Strange. I would expect that "initial investment" to apply the first time the system is colonized then.

Oh, and those "exotic relics"/"prisoners of war" have to get there somehow. If you "sell back" those prisoners of war, you would expect the old owner to pay some money for it right? If they pay a LOT of money, I would expect the income of the old owner to drop; if they DON'T pay a lot of money, I would expect the income of the new owner to NOT go up.

I don't worry about it a lot; Axis & Allies has the same problem.
 
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