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Subject: At least atheists aren't hiding it like the priests rss

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Junior McSpiffy
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Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day... seems to think that pedophilia is only bad if it gets out of control. If there's just a little bit, then it ain't all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild...

The fact that he managed to overcome the trauma he suffered as a kid and live a productive life is commendable, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't affected. It feels like he is just trying to act like what happened to him wasn't such a big deal. It seems like justification for his behavior and wanting to seem like his experience is the norm.

But then, I would probably say the same thing about his aggro atheism.
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GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
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GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day... seems to think that pedophilia is only bad if it gets out of control. If there's just a little bit, then it ain't all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild...

The fact that he managed to overcome the trauma he suffered as a kid and live a productive life is commendable, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't affected. It feels like he is just trying to act like what happened to him wasn't such a big deal. It seems like justification for his behavior and wanting to seem like his experience is the norm.

But then, I would probably say the same thing about his aggro atheism.


You attached the word "trauma" to it, not Dawkins. Why not take him at his word? He says the event, I suppose there was only one, didn't have any residual effect on him so it probably didn't.

This is a convoluted subject anyway, mainly because of the differing standards both culturally and nationally and even state-by-state here in the USA. Personally, I believe that any sexual contact by anyone of any age with any person technically still a "child" is wrong and has the potential to cause problems. But that's not always the case. Well, it's always wrong, but it doesn't always have lingering negative effects. We don't even know how often a negative effect occurs anyway.

I also believe that the popularity of claiming residual trauma from early sexual contact has made it desirable to claim one was molested as a child in order to justify/excuse/explain current behavior. Can't prove it because you can never prove anything of this sort. But if you read enough on the subject - as most of us parents have - you begin to get the feeling that every 3rd male adult you see on the street is a child molester stalking your children and that any female teacher that is even passably attractive secretly wants to diddle your sons and daughters.
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Junior McSpiffy
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HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.
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DWTripp wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day... seems to think that pedophilia is only bad if it gets out of control. If there's just a little bit, then it ain't all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild...

The fact that he managed to overcome the trauma he suffered as a kid and live a productive life is commendable, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't affected. It feels like he is just trying to act like what happened to him wasn't such a big deal. It seems like justification for his behavior and wanting to seem like his experience is the norm.

But then, I would probably say the same thing about his aggro atheism.


You attached the word "trauma" to it, not Dawkins. Why not take him at his word? He says the event, I suppose there was only one, didn't have any residual effect on him so it probably didn't.

This is a convoluted subject anyway, mainly because of the differing standards both culturally and nationally and even state-by-state here in the USA. Personally, I believe that any sexual contact by anyone of any age with any person technically still a "child" is wrong and has the potential to cause problems. But that's not always the case. Well, it's always wrong, but it doesn't always have lingering negative effects. We don't even know how often a negative effect occurs anyway.

I also believe that the popularity of claiming residual trauma from early sexual contact has made it desirable to claim one was molested as a child in order to justify/excuse/explain current behavior. Can't prove it because you can never prove anything of this sort. But if you read enough on the subject - as most of us parents have - you begin to get the feeling that every 3rd male adult you see on the street is a child molester stalking your children and that any female teacher that is even passably attractive secretly wants to diddle your sons and daughters.


Why does the teacher have to be attractive? Ugly teachers don't want kiddy love?

That's... something-ist.
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GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.
I think he argues against the manifestation he is most often exposed to. The one that makes so much noise in challenging things like evolution, or the age of the earth.
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DWTripp wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day... seems to think that pedophilia is only bad if it gets out of control. If there's just a little bit, then it ain't all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild...

The fact that he managed to overcome the trauma he suffered as a kid and live a productive life is commendable, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't affected. It feels like he is just trying to act like what happened to him wasn't such a big deal. It seems like justification for his behavior and wanting to seem like his experience is the norm.

But then, I would probably say the same thing about his aggro atheism.


You attached the word "trauma" to it, not Dawkins. Why not take him at his word? He says the event, I suppose there was only one, didn't have any residual effect on him so it probably didn't.

This is a convoluted subject anyway, mainly because of the differing standards both culturally and nationally and even state-by-state here in the USA. Personally, I believe that any sexual contact by anyone of any age with any person technically still a "child" is wrong and has the potential to cause problems. But that's not always the case. Well, it's always wrong, but it doesn't always have lingering negative effects. We don't even know how often a negative effect occurs anyway.

I also believe that the popularity of claiming residual trauma from early sexual contact has made it desirable to claim one was molested as a child in order to justify/excuse/explain current behavior. Can't prove it because you can never prove anything of this sort. But if you read enough on the subject - as most of us parents have - you begin to get the feeling that every 3rd male adult you see on the street is a child molester stalking your children and that any female teacher that is even passably attractive secretly wants to diddle your sons and daughters.
I would tend to agree, we attach far too much importance to the need for "suffering". Dawkins did not suffer Trauma, but did not like the experience, why can we not accept that?
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Pintsizepete wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day... seems to think that pedophilia is only bad if it gets out of control. If there's just a little bit, then it ain't all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild...

The fact that he managed to overcome the trauma he suffered as a kid and live a productive life is commendable, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't affected. It feels like he is just trying to act like what happened to him wasn't such a big deal. It seems like justification for his behavior and wanting to seem like his experience is the norm.

But then, I would probably say the same thing about his aggro atheism.


You attached the word "trauma" to it, not Dawkins. Why not take him at his word? He says the event, I suppose there was only one, didn't have any residual effect on him so it probably didn't.

This is a convoluted subject anyway, mainly because of the differing standards both culturally and nationally and even state-by-state here in the USA. Personally, I believe that any sexual contact by anyone of any age with any person technically still a "child" is wrong and has the potential to cause problems. But that's not always the case. Well, it's always wrong, but it doesn't always have lingering negative effects. We don't even know how often a negative effect occurs anyway.

I also believe that the popularity of claiming residual trauma from early sexual contact has made it desirable to claim one was molested as a child in order to justify/excuse/explain current behavior. Can't prove it because you can never prove anything of this sort. But if you read enough on the subject - as most of us parents have - you begin to get the feeling that every 3rd male adult you see on the street is a child molester stalking your children and that any female teacher that is even passably attractive secretly wants to diddle your sons and daughters.


Why does the teacher have to be attractive? Ugly teachers don't want kiddy love?

That's... something-ist.


No it's not. It's a comment on what the media presents when it presents stories of female teachers having sex with their students. When I was a teen I not only wouldn't have had sex with an ugly teacher, I would have been disgusted by any offers. But I had several attractive female teachers I would have jumped on at the slightest invitation.

It's not sexist to state the obvious - attractive people get more sexual attention. Ugly people get less sexual attention. Fact.
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GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.


And Richard Dawkins was not the perpetrator, unlike the priests your title alludes to. Title suggests otherwise.
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DWTripp wrote:
Pintsizepete wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day... seems to think that pedophilia is only bad if it gets out of control. If there's just a little bit, then it ain't all that bad.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild...

The fact that he managed to overcome the trauma he suffered as a kid and live a productive life is commendable, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't affected. It feels like he is just trying to act like what happened to him wasn't such a big deal. It seems like justification for his behavior and wanting to seem like his experience is the norm.

But then, I would probably say the same thing about his aggro atheism.


You attached the word "trauma" to it, not Dawkins. Why not take him at his word? He says the event, I suppose there was only one, didn't have any residual effect on him so it probably didn't.

This is a convoluted subject anyway, mainly because of the differing standards both culturally and nationally and even state-by-state here in the USA. Personally, I believe that any sexual contact by anyone of any age with any person technically still a "child" is wrong and has the potential to cause problems. But that's not always the case. Well, it's always wrong, but it doesn't always have lingering negative effects. We don't even know how often a negative effect occurs anyway.

I also believe that the popularity of claiming residual trauma from early sexual contact has made it desirable to claim one was molested as a child in order to justify/excuse/explain current behavior. Can't prove it because you can never prove anything of this sort. But if you read enough on the subject - as most of us parents have - you begin to get the feeling that every 3rd male adult you see on the street is a child molester stalking your children and that any female teacher that is even passably attractive secretly wants to diddle your sons and daughters.


Why does the teacher have to be attractive? Ugly teachers don't want kiddy love?

That's... something-ist.


No it's not. It's a comment on what the media presents when it presents stories of female teachers having sex with their students. When I was a teen I not only wouldn't have had sex with an ugly teacher, I would have been disgusted by any offers. But I had several attractive female teachers I would have jumped on at the slightest invitation.

It's not sexist to state the obvious - attractive people get more sexual attention. Ugly people get less sexual attention. Fact.


True, but your statement was about motivation. That "every teacher that is even passably attractive secretly wants". Just because only the passably attractive are successful doesn't mean that the non-passably attractive don't want to.

In regards to the OP, almost every woman I know who has opened up to me about this sort of thing has been molested, and a fair amount of the men I know have had weird, fucked-up stuff happen in their youth. It's all about how much power you let it have over you. My father went to prison (twice) for molestation (not me), and my stepfather never went to prison (but should have) (not me, kind of) for molestation, but my sister and I are reasonably functional adults. Well, she's very functional, if you don't count the fact that she believes every nutball documentary she watches.
 
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Pintsizepete wrote:


True, but your statement was about motivation. That "every teacher that is even passably attractive secretly wants". Just because only the passably attractive are successful doesn't mean that the non-passably attractive don't want to.

In regards to the OP, almost every woman I know who has opened up to me about this sort of thing has been molested, and a fair amount of the men I know have had weird, fucked-up stuff happen in their youth. It's all about how much power you let it have over you. My father went to prison (twice) for molestation (not me), and my stepfather never went to prison (but should have) (not me, kind of) for molestation, but my sister and I are reasonably functional adults. Well, she's very functional, if you don't count the fact that she believes every nutball documentary she watches.


Hey, I'm just commenting on how the media portrays female molesters in schools. They're rarely unattractive.

As for your friends and the idea of opening up - I have no idea why someone would tell someone else anything of the sort unless you are a counselor of some sort. What I mean is that our current societal focus on underage sex does (I believe) tend to make it popular to have been a victim.

How many women do you know well enough for them to have told you very sensitive and usually private things about their life? That's just slightly odd to me unless, as I said, you're some sort of mental health professional. Mostly I really don't want to know things like what Dawkins revealed. It didn't have a negative impact on him so I don't see why he was compelled to comment unless he was attempting to get people to understand that sometimes stuff happens to kids and leaves them totally undamaged.
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DWTripp wrote:
Pintsizepete wrote:


True, but your statement was about motivation. That "every teacher that is even passably attractive secretly wants". Just because only the passably attractive are successful doesn't mean that the non-passably attractive don't want to.

In regards to the OP, almost every woman I know who has opened up to me about this sort of thing has been molested, and a fair amount of the men I know have had weird, fucked-up stuff happen in their youth. It's all about how much power you let it have over you. My father went to prison (twice) for molestation (not me), and my stepfather never went to prison (but should have) (not me, kind of) for molestation, but my sister and I are reasonably functional adults. Well, she's very functional, if you don't count the fact that she believes every nutball documentary she watches.


Hey, I'm just commenting on how the media portrays female molesters in schools. They're rarely unattractive.

As for your friends and the idea of opening up - I have no idea why someone would tell someone else anything of the sort unless you are a counselor of some sort. What I mean is that our current societal focus on underage sex does (I believe) tend to make it popular to have been a victim.

How many women do you know well enough for them to have told you very sensitive and usually private things about their life? That's just slightly odd to me unless, as I said, you're some sort of mental health professional. Mostly I really don't want to know things like what Dawkins revealed. It didn't have a negative impact on him so I don't see why he was compelled to comment unless he was attempting to get people to understand that sometimes stuff happens to kids and leaves them totally undamaged.


Well, personally at least a few. I at first listed a few of them but then deleted that sentence and replaced it with this one. Why do they do it? Maybe I'm just a good person to talk to. Maybe they just want to get it off of their chest. I don't know. When it happens my go-to response isn't to grill them to find out why they told me.

I do agree that we are a society of victimhood, however. Everyone wants to blame their problems and actions on everyone but themselves. Childhood trauma is an extremely easy one to use.
 
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HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.


And Richard Dawkins was not the perpetrator, unlike the priests your title alludes to. Title suggests otherwise.


He's just saying... you know... a little bitta little ain't gonna do anyone any harm.
 
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GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.


And Richard Dawkins was not the perpetrator, unlike the priests your title alludes to. Title suggests otherwise.


He's just saying... you know... a little bitta little ain't gonna do anyone any harm.


I thought it was the atheists who were angsty?
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GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.


And Richard Dawkins was not the perpetrator, unlike the priests your title alludes to. Title suggests otherwise.


He's just saying... you know... a little bitta little ain't gonna do anyone any harm.


Maybe it's a ruse, a way for him to get Priests to agree with him on at least something.
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mlcarter815 wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.


And Richard Dawkins was not the perpetrator, unlike the priests your title alludes to. Title suggests otherwise.


He's just saying... you know... a little bitta little ain't gonna do anyone any harm.


I thought it was the atheists who were angsty?


Well, after you get worked up for so long, you gotta do someone to relax....
 
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I'm glad to have someone taking the position that he doesn't personally feel aggrieved. He's not saying someone else shouldn't, or that modern standards for sexual abuse are wrong. He just doesn't feel that way himself.
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GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.


And Richard Dawkins was not the perpetrator, unlike the priests your title alludes to. Title suggests otherwise.


He's just saying... you know... a little bitta little ain't gonna do anyone any harm.
No, he said it did him no lasting harm, no where does he say anything about it not being any harm for anyone else.
 
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GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.

I assume you haven't read any of his books on the subject.
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GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day... seems to think that pedophilia is only bad if it gets out of control. If there's just a little bit, then it ain't all that bad.


It seems like your response fits the headline better than the quote. Dawkins does say that he doesn't think it does lasting harm, fair enough, but the main point he's making is that people have to be judged to some extent within a culture. He specifically says that he doesn't think the teacher who put his hands in young Dawkins's shorts should be judged by the standards that Dawkins or anyone else would use today -- and draws the analogy to how evaluating the character of someone from the 1800s based on whether they would be considered a racist by modern standards is unreasonable.

I don't fully agree with him, but your description doesn't distinguish between past and present, which means it misses what I think is his main point.
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DavidDearlove wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.

I assume you haven't read any of his books on the subject.


I have, at least in bits and pieces. Never read one cover to cover. But just because I know my one-liner doesn't give an accurate and in-depth reflection of his views doesn't mean I'm gonna keep a one-liner to myself.
 
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GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.


And Richard Dawkins was not the perpetrator, unlike the priests your title alludes to. Title suggests otherwise.


He's just saying... you know... a little bitta little ain't gonna do anyone any harm.


No that's not. If you can't understand 3 lines of what he says, I doubt you can understand a book. You'd better stick to your stupid fantasies.

Your one liner is not funny, a blatant jab at something you don't seem to be able to understand, and insulting for the victims, especially the victims of priests.
 
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DavidDearlove wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Yep. Richard Dawkins... one of the most avid God-haters of our day...


Richard Dawkins does not believe in god.
I know... I know.... it just entertains me that some who don't believe in God keep fixating on the same manifestation of God to argue against.

I assume you haven't read any of his books on the subject.

I believe he's just baiting you and others about this.
 
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To be fair to Junior, Dawkins does regularly say that he thinks a religious upbringing is worse than being molested. So while Dawkins thinks paedophiles are bad, he thinks priests can be worse.
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