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Subject: Collective OP 2 Build - Romulan Pure rss

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Erich Claussen
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I play in a faction pure store and was curious to see how the Romulans would work in OP 2. This is my current build, I need to shave a point off, so it needs some slight adjustments, but I am hoping to do some heavy hitting and fading:

I.R.W. Valdore (30)
Toreth (4)
All Forward Disruptor Banks (4)
Plasma Torpedoes (5)
Photon Torpedoes (5)
Tactical Officer (3)

I.R.W. Gal Gath'Thong (18)
Donatra (4)
Counter Attack (3)
Plasma Torpedoes (5)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
N'Vek (2) (although I may drop him since I will be flying cloaked for a majority of this event)

Resource : Counter Attack Die (5)

Total 91, but if I drop N'Vek, it will be 89

What are your thoughts? I have to stay ship pure.
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Scott Steiner
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Try to get figure in Advanced Cloaking (4) for the Valdore. You will be doing green maneuvers any way for the extra +1 attack die.
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Erich Claussen
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Unfortunately, the Valdore doesn't have a tech upgrade slot. I could drop down to D'Deridex but then I would lose an attack die and the special ability of the Valdore. I don't think the Romulans have a faction character that would allow me to add a tech upgrade to the ship.
 
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Crazy Fella
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I'd recommend dropping all forward disruptor banks for massacre. That shaves you off 1 point and gives you a better elite talent that works great with Toreth and doesn't cost an action to use. The action will be much better spent on sensor echo or a target lock in my humble opinion.
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Erich Claussen
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Thanks.. That actually is a great suggestion. I had to quick order a Vo, but I think that will definitely help deal a little more damage.
 
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Scott Steiner
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Drop the Counter Attack die and one Plasma for Ind-Kli Flagship which gives a tech slot and talent slot onto the Valdore. Then the Flagship also gives +1 attack die to your other ship at range 2-3. It also provides +1 attack on you primary so you wouldn't need any torpedoes on your Valdore, and gives an additional +1 Def for a total of 7 dice when cloaked.

Or go with the Ind-Fed for the additional tech/crew slot. You loose the +1 def but you get a free evade action. Still get the +1 attack dice and you give a second action to your second ship. You can drop all three weapons and add other things.
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Alton Todd
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Great build for a faction pure fleet. But not for the Collective OP2.

Starting with a flagship is a good start. You need more ships throwing more dices and scoring quickly. I'm seeing in our practice runs that a three ship build plus blind is the bare minimum.

One and two ship builds are not scoring the points before being destoryed or timing out.

Keep this in mind. In practice runs we have a fleet that is scoring over an avg of 27 points around and doing it for up to three rounds before slowly tapering on points as ships are destoryed. That's 81 points. Best single round was 30 points. Highest point total so far 97 points. The player is running a five ship build plus blind. The fleets that are scoring the most points per round are Dom, Fed and Klingons 4 plus ships pure faction builds.

Just what we're seeing after 17 practice games. I wish you the best and good hunting, after all it's a dice base game, may the Dice Gods smile on you and not your opponent on the day of your battle.
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Noah Sager
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rangarth wrote:
Drop the Counter Attack die and one Plasma for Ind-Kli Flagship which gives a tech slot and talent slot onto the Valdore. Then the Flagship also gives +1 attack die to your other ship at range 2-3. It also provides +1 attack on you primary so you wouldn't need any torpedoes on your Valdore, and gives an additional +1 Def for a total of 7 dice when cloaked.


This.
 
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James Patrick
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RequiemX wrote:
rangarth wrote:
Drop the Counter Attack die and one Plasma for Ind-Kli Flagship which gives a tech slot and talent slot onto the Valdore. Then the Flagship also gives +1 attack die to your other ship at range 2-3. It also provides +1 attack on you primary so you wouldn't need any torpedoes on your Valdore, and gives an additional +1 Def for a total of 7 dice when cloaked.


This.


Or you could put the Flagship on the Gal Gath'Thong, put Advanced Cloaking in the newly acquired tech slot and shoot Plasmas all day without having to Target Lock. That is, if you have Advanced Cloaking...
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Erich Claussen
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Jagerfox wrote:
Great build for a faction pure fleet. But not for the Collective OP2.

Starting with a flagship is a good start. You need more ships throwing more dices and scoring quickly. I'm seeing in our practice runs that a three ship build plus blind is the bare minimum.

One and two ship builds are not scoring the points before being destoryed or timing out.

Keep this in mind. In practice runs we have a fleet that is scoring over an avg of 27 points around and doing it for up to three rounds before slowly tapering on points as ships are destoryed. That's 81 points. Best single round was 30 points. Highest point total so far 97 points. The player is running a five ship build plus blind. The fleets that are scoring the most points per round are Dom, Fed and Klingons 4 plus ships pure faction builds.

Just what we're seeing after 17 practice games. I wish you the best and good hunting, after all it's a dice base game, may the Dice Gods smile on you and not your opponent on the day of your battle.


So in the higher ship count builds, are you taking bare bones ships with captain Generic? With a 90 point build out, I am thinking 3+ ships would be pretty minimal.
 
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James Patrick
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Jagerfox wrote:
Great build for a faction pure fleet. But not for the Collective OP2.

Starting with a flagship is a good start. You need more ships throwing more dices and scoring quickly. I'm seeing in our practice runs that a three ship build plus blind is the bare minimum.

One and two ship builds are not scoring the points before being destoryed or timing out.

Keep this in mind. In practice runs we have a fleet that is scoring over an avg of 27 points around and doing it for up to three rounds before slowly tapering on points as ships are destoryed. That's 81 points. Best single round was 30 points. Highest point total so far 97 points. The player is running a five ship build plus blind. The fleets that are scoring the most points per round are Dom, Fed and Klingons 4 plus ships pure faction builds.

Just what we're seeing after 17 practice games. I wish you the best and good hunting, after all it's a dice base game, may the Dice Gods smile on you and not your opponent on the day of your battle.


On my first practice run, I could see that a 2 ship build would survive but lose while the three ship build won but lost ships. In OP2, he who hits most wins so all of the tom-foolery with opponents ships went right out the airlock.

What I am having trouble coming up with is how your guy put 5 ships on the table at an average of 18 points per ship and still tossed 27 damage a round. But my fleet is limited. I have no doubles so...I'll try to come up with something close...
 
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Scott Steiner
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Not sure but from 90 points - 10 Flagship Ind-Kli +1 attack die, rng 2-3
80 - 6 Martok +1 attack die to all other ships.
74 - 4 Gowron +1 attack die to all other ships.

70 - 48 3 - 16 point ships 3 attack dice each
22 - 22 1 - 22 point ship 4 attack dice.

4 + 1 flagship + gowron for 6 dice
3 + 1 flagship ability + 1 martok for 5 dice
3 + 1 flagship ability + 1 martok + 1 gowron for 6 x 2 for 12 dice.
Generic ship minimum 3 dice + flagship ability + martok for 5 dice.

28 dice attack for first round.
(if you get the Klingon it ends up being 30 dice)

Martok gives a free re-roll for 1 attack dice for the other 4 ships.
 
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Paul Chappell
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Thinking something along that line myself... Only 2 ships, but at least one should be fairly survivable... Not so sure about the Flagship, but a decent start I think...

Romulan 90 Borg 1

Resource: Flagship Romulan (10)

I.R.W. Valdore (30)
Donatra (4)
Flagship (0)
Counter Attack (3)
N'Vek (2)
Ship SP: 39

I.R.W. Khazara (30)
Mirok (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (5)
Advanced Cloaking (4)
Ship SP: 41

Total Build SP: 90

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html
 
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Alton Todd
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ebaghead wrote:
So in the higher ship count builds, are you taking bare bones ships with captain Generic? With a 90 point build out, I am thinking 3+ ships would be pretty minimal.


My gaming bud wants to keep his exact 6 ship fleet build under wraps since he's in the hunt for the grand prize for the Collective three month storyline.

That said here is what I can say. Yes it's bare bones using Generic Captains the build is including one of the blind ships. In a perfect storm dice roll the build could hit 31 points a round. This has not happen yet. However in our latest practice run game his fleet just hit for 103 points before being destroyed. That is the new high point total.

What I see that is working for him is the attack ship bonus at the end of the round and all of them ships throwing so many dice. Even if his fleet gets destroyed he has so many points in the bank so early in the game. Also once he is destroyed the other fleet is destroyed soon after or time is called. Usually it's time being called on the game before any fleet is totally destroyed. He seems to slow roll and slow move during the game. Moving and rolling for six ships takes a lot of time off the clock. We are working on breaking this build. Any ideas fellow ST:AW fans?

Now not wanting to jack this tread and for the OP info we played the Rom build above using a flagship a couple different ways in two games. It got beat with four plus ship builds in both games. One game it was destroyed first. Our suggestion is to drop a few upgrades and add a flagship and at least one more ship to your build. BTW it was beat in one of the games by a Rom three ship build plus blind. It looks like throwing dice and making them hit is what wins the Collective OP2 storyline.
 
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Dave Benhart
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Jagerfox wrote:
My gaming bud wants to keep his exact 6 ship fleet build under wraps since he's in the hunt for the grand prize for the Collective three month storyline.

That said here is what I can say. Yes it's bare bones using Generic Captains the build is including one of the blind ships. In a perfect storm dice roll the build could hit 31 points a round. This has not happen yet. However in our latest practice run game his fleet just hit for 103 points before being destroyed. That is the new high point total.


I'm having a hard time believing this without seeing the build. Simple numbers of dice only hit 50% of the time. Even with Battlestations, which means no Cloak, that's only 75%. 31 - 6 for the bonus (and keeping all 6 on target every turn will be near impossible) = 25. That means 50 attack dice every turn. 8 base attack per ship. Nothing has that with bare captains. 42 with Battlestations means 5.25 base attack per ship, but again, that's without using a Cloak, thereby getting shot at every turn. Granted, it's only a 5 die attack for the first several turns.

Nope, can't be done. The cheapest 5 attack die ship is the Cardassian Keldon class at 24 points. 3 of those + Fighters = 92 points. Anything else brings the dice/ship average below 5. Also, the strongest blind ship has 3 attack dice and that's required to take 30 points out of the 120.

It's not possible to roll 40+ dice with 5 ships under 90 points + 1 ship at 30 points. Convince me otherwise by showing me a build that does it.

The closest I've gotten is this: (Got a bit better with this)
D7 Class (16)
Klingon Captain (0)
Total (16)

Raptor Class (16)
Klingon Captain (0)
Total (16)

D7 Class (16)
Klingon Captain (0)
Total (16)

Saber Class (20)
Benjamin Maxwell (4)
Photon Torpedoes (4)
Total (28)

Nebula Class (24)
Federation Captain (0)
Total (24)

Hideki Class Attack Fighter (20)
Total (20)

Hideki Class Attack Fighters (20)

Fleet total: 120

Generated by Space Dock for Mac
http://spacedockapp.org


That's 24 base attack dice. Even rolling PERFECT hits (the chances of pulling off are astronomically low) for every attack that doesn't get 31 damage to the BCT in a single turn.
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Alton Todd
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davedujour wrote:

I'm having a hard time believing this without seeing the build.

Nope, can't be done.

It's not possible to roll 40+ dice with 5 ships under 90 points + 1 ship at 30 points. Convince me otherwise by showing me a build that does it.


Well Dave you'll not be calling me a liar will you.

It can to be done. I saw it and I'm telling you it's so.

Will show you the build on August 23rd right after our Collective OP 2 event my bud wants to keep it under warps until then.

Lastly his six ship 124SP build is only throwinng only 25 dice per round and getting the plus 6 bonus for his six ship attack. A perfect turn would yield 31 points. That's not happen yet, but he did hit 30 points on one turn. I saw it. Enough said.

 
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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Jagerfox wrote:
davedujour wrote:

I'm having a hard time believing this without seeing the build.

Nope, can't be done.

It's not possible to roll 40+ dice with 5 ships under 90 points + 1 ship at 30 points. Convince me otherwise by showing me a build that does it.


Well Dave you'll not be calling me a liar will you.

It can to be done. I saw it and I'm telling you it's so.

Will show you the build on August 23rd right after our Collective OP 2 event my bud wants to keep it under warps until then.

Lastly his six ship 124SP build is only throwinng only 25 dice per round and getting the plus 6 bonus for his six ship attack. A perfect turn would yield 31 points. That's not happen yet, but he did hit 30 points on one turn. I saw it. Enough said.



Just tinkering around, The best I can do in one round with 5 ship plus the blind in 90 points is 29 damage and that seems fragile as all get out. However, assuming you get 2 full rounds of unloading with it, that is a potential for (29+6)x2=70 damage after 2 turns. With all the time setting up and maneuvering 6 ships would take, even if you get 50% damage, that's 15+15+6+6=42 damage in just 2 turns. Ships would surely start disappearing after that, but after maneuvering 6 ships around for a few turns, it would assuredly chew up a chunk of time and the opponent would have a tough time getting further with a small fleet before ti also died.
 
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Daniel Horton
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One thing not being mentioned is the bonus one damage for the first critical each ship throws, so obviously the more ships you have the more chances you have at this bonus. Any ways, after contemplating a while, I think the best build is (though I don't have the money to purchase this many duplicates):

List Name: OP2 is for accountants

Resource: Flagship Independent (Klingon) (10)

Raptor Class (16)
Ship SP: 16

Raptor Class (16)
Ship SP: 16

Raptor Class (16)
Ship SP: 16

Raptor Class (16)
Ship SP: 16

Raptor Class (16)
Ship SP: 16

Total Build SP: 90

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html

Or instead of the flagship, use Martok and Gowron for their +1 auras but that means two ships don't have actions so I prefer just the flagship. Or you could switch out one Raptor for Gowron and Martok and then add in a PSF (awesome cause not only does your opponent lose one ship's attack -- they also lose the coordinated attack bonus) or just switch in a vorcha.

But either way, with this build you have base 20 attack all modifiable with target locks. Then add to that the attack damage of whichever blind you get (and that also can get the aura if you fly extremely tight). And then the possibility of +6 for crits and +6 when they all attack all comes to a possible 35 or so. (And I'm not even bringing up the possibility of an additional +6 when all are in range 1).

Since most of that attack is from re-rollable TLs and the bonus six for coordinated attack should be guaranteed, I would say you have an average 25 (30 when in range 1).

Anyways, this scenario seemed a nice change of pace, but the more I look at it, the more it just seems like a game of Risk -- four hours of discussion and it comes down to a bunch of dice being rolled.
 
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Aaron Percival
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I'd probably swap Toreth and Donatra around. You have Photons on the Valdore so you've already got the one conversion to crit on that ship. Put Toreth one on the other one for a conversion over there too.
 
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Erich Claussen
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I have swapped my build around a little and have come up with a pretty lean offense/defensive build that is Romulan pure. It now contains 3 ships (+ the blind buy) and will deliver, if calculated correctly, between 14-16 dice of damage a turn (plus whatever the blind booster gives) while still putting up a pretty decent defense of 6 dice per ship plus a free evade (while cloaked).

I.R.W. Valdore (30)
Flagship IND/FED (10)
Donatra (4)

I.R.W. Gal Gath'Thong (18)
Toreth (4)
Plasma Torpedoes (5)

I.R.W. Praetus (14)
Mirok (2) (to nullify the cloaking penalty and to help lick the wounds from the BCT)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Total build (90)

Having the Valdore shoveling out 1 free movement will allow me to re-cloak the Gal Gath'Thong and then use the action to re-enable the Plasma torpedoes and go to town firing turn after turn, re-rolling blanks and turning hits into crits. Also, leaving Donatra on the Valdore allows the Gal Gath'thong to fire at 6 dice a turn, the Valdore (as long as I stay with green maneuvers) to fire at 6 dice a turn and the Praetus, after the initial plasma torpedo fire to fire at 3-4 dice a round.

Averaging out the Blind Boosters, I am looking at another 4-6 dice of damage if we can stay in formation. Total attack per round 18-22 with guaranteed Crits. So if all ships score at LEAST one hit (let's estimate that we are doing 50% hits per dice rolled) we are looking at 9-11 base damage on the BCT, plus 1 for a Crit plus 4 for all ships hitting. So a consistent 14-16 dice on the BCT with ships that aren't pinatas for damage. Not awful...

What do you think?


 
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Alton Todd
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Nice tight 3 ship w/flagship build Ebaghead; decent hitting and good defense. Keeping in a tight formation using good positioning of your fleet should help you to keep shooting until time is called. Plus maybe you'll draw the Klingon or Rom blinds for some synergy goodness as you keep banking points. You'll want to be speedy on your rolls and movements at the beginning of play with this build. Governing your speed of actions as time draws to an end with you having the lead. BTW your fleet is similar to one we used in practice with good success.

Good Hunting and let us/me know how it goes for your fleet.
 
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Jonathan Staples
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A better combo would be this:
Valdore
Indy fed flagship
Donotra
Counter attack
Advanced cloak
(51)

Khazara
Toreth
Counter attack
Polarized hull (or a two point card)
(39)
For a total of 22dice a round provided your targeted and hit.
It'll allow you to survive longer then the 3/4 hulled ships and your actionsare dedicated to counter attack, with the free action to recloak khazara. Rrange 1 will grant 24 AD while maintaining your 6 evades.
 
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Paul Chappell
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Looking at something similar myself, but with Mirok on the second ship probably with Advanced Cloak to just try to regenerate and outlast while shooting fairly well...
 
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Erich Claussen
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Unfortunately I don't have advanced cloak as my collective 1 blind booster was the Dominion ship. The build is nice and might be better suited to OP 3. I am just thinking a 4 ship formation would be less attack dice for the BCT attacks. Are cloaked mines illegal in OP3? I would think that might be a nice way to drop some damage on the moving BCT.
 
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Johnny Monster
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Why would you use the Raptor over the D7 (scan vs battlestations)?
 
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