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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: Vision rss

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Paul Mason
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My daughter wanted a vision card. I saw the ones created here

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/982616/mimics-customshavokpy...

I thought I could tweak it a bit. Any comments would be nice.

Common1


Common2


Uncommon1


Rare1
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Atnier Rodriguez
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His commons look very strong if only because drawing effects are usually attributed to otherwise crappy cards. A fight value of 2 for a cost of 3 is a normal value, so without drawback, you got a normal attack card with a great boost. Yeah, discarding a card to draw a card is an average move in other games, but in deckbuilders where you start with crappy cards that you would love to somehow get rid of or boost, discarding them to draw is pretty good.

Take for example Storm's Gathering Clouds:

Cost 3
Recruit 2
(Ranged): Draw a card

or Angel's High-Speed Chase:

Cost 3
No attack or recruit
Draw two cards, then discard a card.

If you were to modify Angel's, then "discard 1 draw one" at 3 cost, would probably net him just 1 Attack instead of 2.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Density Manipulation is good enough preventing KOs by discarding, but on top of that it allows you to draw too. Maybe a trigger, or modeling it after Colossus "if you gain a Wound". Other changes would mess with your discard boost of the rare (like instead of KOing it, teleport it or something like that).

So, I think he's probably a bit overpowered, which would be true to his character in the comics, but would make his cards more valuable than some of the official ones.

What do you think?
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Paul Mason
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Thanks for the comments. For Vision's first common it is really just a twist on Forge's Reboot

Cost 4
Attack 2
Tech: You may discard a card. If you do, draw two cards.

Do you think just increasing vision's cost to 4 would balance it a little more?

As for the second common. I did model it a little after Colossus's Invulnerability
Cost: 3
Recruit 2
If you would gain a Wound, you may discard this card instead. If you do, draw two cards.


Vision's card costs 1 more and you draw one less card. Also KOing a card is normally a good thing. This card "prevents" you from KOing a garbage card. The upside is it does go well with the rare, and helps when you have a lean deck towards the end.

Density Manipulation:
cost:4
recruit:2
When you KO this card discard this card instead and draw a new one.

Does that make a little more sense?

okami31 wrote:
His commons look very strong if only because drawing effects are usually attributed to otherwise crappy cards. A fight value of 2 for a cost of 3 is a normal value, so without drawback, you got a normal attack card with a great boost. Yeah, discarding a card to draw a card is an average move in other games, but in deckbuilders where you start with crappy cards that you would love to somehow get rid of or boost, discarding them to draw is pretty good.

Take for example Storm's Gathering Clouds:

Cost 3
Recruit 2
(Ranged): Draw a card

or Angel's High-Speed Chase:

Cost 3
No attack or recruit
Draw two cards, then discard a card.

If you were to modify Angel's, then "discard 1 draw one" at 3 cost, would probably net him just 1 Attack instead of 2.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Density Manipulation is good enough preventing KOs by discarding, but on top of that it allows you to draw too. Maybe a trigger, or modeling it after Colossus "if you gain a Wound". Other changes would mess with your discard boost of the rare (like instead of KOing it, teleport it or something like that).

So, I think he's probably a bit overpowered, which would be true to his character in the comics, but would make his cards more valuable than some of the official ones.

What do you think?
 
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Atnier Rodriguez
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Forge's Reboot got a couple of things going for it. It gives you Recruit instead of Attack, and it has a Tech Trigger. Vision's common doesn't have a trigger so it's always there for you to use and grants you attack, which is always better than recruit.

With Density, I think KO effects are far more common than Wound effects, so that's why probably Colossus' is the way it is. I mean, no Henchmen gives you Wounds, but usually, they all like to KO stuff, and they are the easiest to kill. But that's just reading the concept only. Maybe during play, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

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Brian Stephens
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Paul, I too have been unimpressed by the custom Visions I have seen and was really excited by your ideas (I like it when a hero has a "theme", not just random hit and recruit points.)

As Atnier points out it is a little over powered but this could be easily remedied for the two commons (give the first a stealth trigger and increase the cost of the second to 5)

However the rare has a major problem. You have designed it to be powered by the second common converting KOs to discards, unfortunately there are many other ways to discard cards. This card would be massively overpowered if it was combined with Angel, Cyclops, Gambit, Forge, or any other hero that allows you to discard cards.
 
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Ahewlett
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bdst wrote:

However the rare has a major problem. You have designed it to be powered by the second common converting KOs to discards, unfortunately there are many other ways to discard cards. This card would be massively overpowered if it was combined with Angel, Cyclops, Gambit, Forge, or any other hero that allows you to discard cards.


I have to disagree with you about the rare being too powerful.
In the Villains set Electro's uncommon is 2{fight} +1 for each card you discarded this turn. Which is powered by both of his common cards, a slew of other villains, and the heroes you named if you combine the sets.

Rares are meant to be powerful and this one is only slight more powerful then the one I mentioned above, which is an uncommon and black widow's uncommon which gives you +1{fight} for each bystander in your victory pile, which is also powered by a whole slew of cards.
 
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Paul Mason
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Thanks for the interest in Vision. Of the cards I've made this appears to be the most popular with my group ( Wasp being the least popular, and dr. Strange might be the one who is over powered ). Mainly because he is a solid money guy. His rare hasn't been a problem. ( And we use Angel and Forge a lot ) Also his second common hasn't been that useful because you tend to want to KO cards from your hand. There have been a few times late game it is used.

His uncommon by itself is popular just for deck pruning. And normally taken early if possible. Common1 has been useful for churning through the deck.

I do play this multi-player so I don't know how powerful he is solo. Although I just played solo with ice man ( and others ) I realized how overpowered uncommon/common combination can be.

Black Widow is a fine example of being over powered with other heroes. Her uncommon has made it up to 30 fight for me. ( with Angel and Jean Gray by her side )
 
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Atnier Rodriguez
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Is Vision still holding well in your plays?
 
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Paul Mason
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Played with vision about 5 times since my last post... He has been a solid hero. He has been a good "extra" guy. Not a huge force but helps out a lot. My weakest of the people I've printed have been wasp and Ant-man. Which I could tinker with them.
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