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Subject: Anti-Phantoms builds suggestions? rss

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Jean Ouellet
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Everyone is raving how good the Phantom is, I will be trying it in my next games, but I don't hear a lot as to how to counter it?
What are good build to defeat the Phantom and how do you have to fly them?

Here is my thought, but I am not sure about it:

Chewbacca (54)
Predator, C3-PO, Gunner, Millennium Falcon
Gold Squadron Pilot #1 (23)
Ion Cannon Turret
Gold Squadron Pilot #2 (23)
Ion Cannon Turret
 
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Nate Reynolds
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from what I understand the key is either keeping it stressed, or shooting first or both. The top 8 lists from the recent dallas regionals had several Han solo builds meant to counter the phantom.
 
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Richard Dickson
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Ionizing them is good too, since they can't decloak if they're ionized. And you only need one hit to get through to ionize them.
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Tim Pitsch
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I ran Echo, Whisper and Vader shuttle vs Lando and Chewie, it was a close game and he pulled it off. Gunner is very good vs the phantom. I would take out Predator, only Echo and Whisper are played alot, so you will only get that one re roll. I would be tempted to try PTL on Chewie, focus or TL and evade every turn( but then you would have to keep an eye out for tactician). With the Phantom with only 4 health, and chewie with Gunner, the phantom player always has to make a decision, take one hit or spend a evade/focus and try luck with gunner. I took a few hits just so i would not have to face a new attack, thinking back i would probably try my luck vs gunner more.

Overall i think the build can work, but you have to try it out, Chewie could get one or two good shots in and the phantom in done, as well as 30-40 of your opponents ships.
 
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Jason Nopa
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I ran the following at Dallas Regionals:

Lando
Veteran Instincts
Recon Specialist

Chewie
C3PO
Predator
Recon Specialist
Millenium Falcon

I only ran into 1 Phantom list and didn't run into too much of a problem (but we both made some mistakes that affected the outcome of that game). If I were to make a change, I'd probably switch out Lando's Recon Specialist and Veteran Instincts for Predator on Lando as well.

I'm a big fan of Predator because it requires no action to activate and is 2 cheaper than Gunner. Recon Specialist was also extremely useful, but I have to say that the MVP is a tie between C3PO and Predator.

If Lando is in range, he gives Chewie a dodge, in addition to Chewie's 2 focus already. That also gives Chewie better odds at rolling focus's which he can turn into dodges while also having C3PO guaranteeing a dodge as well. And if you manage to roll a focus, guess 0 [3PO], and have the free dodge from Lando, that's 3 evades.

Gunner is good and it forces the opponent to make a decision, but at 5 points, I tend to like Predator more...especially with Lando burning off evades/focus first.

Shooting first makes it easier to take them out, but if you have a lot of damage capacity, you can outlive them. However, this ONLY works if you keep Lando and Chewie together. The matches I lost, they both got separated.

As far as my list goes, I can't tell you how effective it is against Phantom + mini-swarm. It might have more difficulty there...
 
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Jeff Dunford
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jouellet wrote:
Everyone is raving how good the Phantom is, I will be trying it in my next games, but I don't hear a lot as to how to counter it?
What are good build to defeat the Phantom and how do you have to fly them?

Here is my thought, but I am not sure about it:

Chewbacca (54)
Predator, C3-PO, Gunner, Millennium Falcon
Gold Squadron Pilot #1 (23)
Ion Cannon Turret
Gold Squadron Pilot #2 (23)
Ion Cannon Turret


I very nearly took this squad to Ontario Regionals (or basically the same, swapping the Gold Y-wings for Roark and a Rebel Operative so Chewie can shoot before Whisper or Echo can trigger Adv Cloaking Device).

Falcons do great against Phantoms. Except somehow Rick's fully loaded Whisper beat Grish's fully loaded Han (with Predator, Luke, C3PO, Falcon title, Engine Upgrade) + 3x Bandit Z-95s. I didn't stick around to watch that match but I'm curious how that worked.

P.S. Luke Skywalker (crew) on a Falcon works nicely against Phantoms that run Sensor Jammer...
 
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Chris Brown
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I'd keep predator. It's not often that you need to target lock more than 1 die especially if you can manage to get focused. Not to mention you can use it on both attacks with gunner. This will also keep you well rounded for the swarm lists that are still flying around. It comes down to are you looking for a hard counter or a list that's viable for any tournament situation?

I've had luck with intelligence agent and a maneuverable ships like a B, E, A, or any TIE. You may not be able to get directly in their way, but you could make going certain directions less profitable.
 
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Zack Stackurski
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Turrets are a clear counter to Phantoms. I also like Heavy Laser Cannons as you get a pretty good width of powerful fire at range 3 with them and red dice will win over an equal number of green dice over time.

As for how to fly against Phantoms. So far I've found cluttering one side of the board with asteroids as much as I can then hugging that side of the board while they approach works fairly well to limit their maneuverability... or at least let your rule out certain decloaks so you can better guess where to focus your fire.
 
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Bryan Wiley
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The list I came up with is fairly close to yours:

Chewbacca (48)
Predator, Anti-pursuit lasers, Millennium Falcon
Grey Squadron Pilot #1 (26)
R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret
Grey Squadron Pilot #2 (26)
R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret


I like having the Grey's for the PS4 and like R2's to give the Y's some dog fighting potential (at least not being stressed all the time anyway for some TL ion shots). I also dropped my original Gunner I had on Chewie for Pred and APL, figured it was a fair trade. Keep Evading with Chewie and using the Pred as a faux TL and blocking a bit with the APL hopefully.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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wiles01 wrote:
The list I came up with is fairly close to yours:

Chewbacca (48)
Predator, Anti-pursuit lasers, Millennium Falcon
Grey Squadron Pilot #1 (26)
R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret
Grey Squadron Pilot #2 (26)
R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret


I like having the Grey's for the PS4 and like R2's to give the Y's some dog fighting potential (at least not being stressed all the time anyway for some TL ion shots). I also dropped my original Gunner I had on Chewie for Pred and APL, figured it was a fair trade. Keep Evading with Chewie and using the Pred as a faux TL and blocking a bit with the APL hopefully.


I'd still try to squeeze in a Gunner with your Predator; they combo so nicely together.
 
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Bryan Wiley
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Changed the Grey Squadrons to Gold Squadron, but still keeping the R2 units for more potential dog fighting ability.

Takes it to 99, thought about adding Nien Numb for the green straights, but then thinking to try for initiative with the 99 points might be a boon as well.

Chewbacca (51)
Predator, Gunner, Millennium Falcon
Gold Squadron Pilot #1 (24)
R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret
Gold Squadron Pilot #2 (24)
R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret
 
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Jeff Dunford
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wiles01 wrote:
Changed the Grey Squadrons to Gold Squadron, but still keeping the R2 units for more potential dog fighting ability.

Takes it to 99, thought about adding Nien Numb for the green straights, but then thinking to try for initiative with the 99 points might be a boon as well.

Chewbacca (51)
Predator, Gunner, Millennium Falcon
Gold Squadron Pilot #1 (24)
R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret
Gold Squadron Pilot #2 (24)
R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret


I don't think this squad benefits much from having (or not having) initiative. I'd either take Nunb or drop the droids for C3PO.
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Jean Ouellet
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I like:
Chewbacca (54)
Predator, C3PO, Gunner, Millennium Falcon
Gold Squadron Pilot #1 (23)
Ion Cannon Turret
Gold Squadron Pilot #2 (23)
Ion Cannon Turret

Gunner and Predator do not require an action, so this list is relatively protected against action denials.
I'll give this a try and if it looks like Y-wings can't dog fight well enough, I may change the gunner for a recon specialist and put R2 astromech on the Y-wing.

Another method to deal with Phantoms may be simple Pilot skill. I have this list that is a particular favourite of mine that is surprisingly effective. You have to hug a side to succeed but it could..

Wes Janson (30)
Veteran Instincts
Wedge Antilles (33)
R2 Astromech, Predator
Luke Skywalker (37)
R2-D2, Draw Their Fire, Shield Upgrade
Luke with Draw Their Fire really did a number on an Etahn super crit squad...
 
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Brain Less
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I would say the best counter is player skill

Played against a BBBBZ rebel swarm that did a very good weave maneuver against my phantom, leaving it exposed. Also, if playing against phantoms, fly near the edge and rocks. Cutting decloaking lanes reduce their effectiveness a lot.

Y-Wings with turrets are not a good counter. I had no problem playing against them, just keep at range 3 and they can't shoot you.

Best counter is still a YT with Gunner. But it's not an auto-win.

I still have not played a mirror match, it must be ugly

Right now Phantoms are scary, but I bet that soon enough, we won't see them that much. Wave 5 is coming quickly (already at the printer).



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LucCros
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jouellet wrote:

Wes Janson (30)
Veteran Instincts
Wedge Antilles (33)
R2 Astromech, Predator
Luke Skywalker (37)
R2-D2, Draw Their Fire, Shield Upgrade
Luke with Draw Their Fire really did a number on an Etahn super crit squad...


I'm interested to know why the opponent would use Etahn's ability when shooting Wes or Wedge in a squad like this?
Seems like he fell right into the Luke - Draw - R2-D2 trap...
 
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Jean Ouellet
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Yeah, just re-read it and it is a "may", so he could have chosen not to use the ability but he did not.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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jouellet wrote:
Yeah, just re-read it and it is a "may", so he could have chosen not to use the ability but he did not.


That, or just take out Luke first. It's usually easiest to deal with R2-D2 early when you're at full strength. If he makes it to the late game, he's really tough to beat.
 
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Vic
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In terms of hard counters to phantoms, Roark + Falcon is the cookie cutter list. In terms of viable tournament lists that do well against phantoms, just look at previous Wave 4 legal regional threads.

Edit: Forgot to mention empire hard counters. Firespray(s) with rebel captive or tactician.
 
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Jean Ouellet
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Targeting Luke is actually wanted. Luke is a power house of defence, leaving Wes and Wedge to do lots of damage.
This is one of the reason this squad does pretty well, there are no good choice for the first target.
It's two flaws are that it's only 3 ships, so if the dice do not comply you can be down 1 ships quite fast.
X-Wing manoeuvrability is bit too predictable, so even if you are at high pilot skill, Echo / Soontir Fel can do circle around this squad if they are flown well. I managed to do just that yesterday night, trying out Echo...


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Bryan Wiley
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I ended up switching my Chewbacca-YY build to a YYBB build and ended up winning our local tournament.
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Jean Ouellet
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Cool, congrats!
What was your exact build?
Did you fight lots of Phantoms?

 
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Bryan Wiley
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2 Greys w/ ion cannon and 2 blues with advanced sensor.

1st round was against a pretty decent wedge/bb list.

2nd round was against a phantom build with a couple interceptors with lots of bells and whistles. It was very close and I got lucky with the last round of shooting. My last injured blue was face to face with a cloaked but injured whisper. He rolled 5 attack dice with only 1 hit and I rolled my 1 evade and evaded. Then my 4 attack back killed him. That phantom was so squirrelly, I was lucky with my advanced sensors to be able to keep him in my arc. Sometimes luck pays off.

3rd round was against a chewie falcon and 2 blues with AS. Luckily I won the initiative so my blues always got to shoot first. Otherwise the game may have turned out differently. Y-Wings can just run B-Wings all over the board though with ion cannon vs 1 evade. So I tried to take them out first and then worked on chewie, even ioning him a few times with a double ion shot.

I have made 2 alternate lists to try out this weekend in the next tournament we are having (we have two FLGS and they are holding their tournaments a week apart). One is a YYBX list, all PS 4. The other is a YYBA list with using the A-Wing with SD as a flanker up one side to serve as a distraction hopefully.
 
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