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Subject: Game Salute - A Poll rss

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You can't handle the truth?
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A recent thread Why I'll NEVER Work with Game Salute Again! was posted, and subsequently locked.

An overriding point was brought up that many people who are upset with Game Salute, are merely responding to these negative threads, using them to get riled up, without knowing the whole story. A comparison was made to threads like that being a witch hunt, for the sole purpose to shame the name of Game Salute, and that threads like that shouldn't exist.

It got me thinking. Are people only hopping onto some Game Salute Hate Bandwagon? Or are they reacting to their own experiences, and just looking for a forum to let it out?

As such, I have created this poll, and am curious to see if my experiences line up with other people's.

Now, I know that internet polls don't prove anything, I was just wondering if other people have gone through the same things that I have. If so, I am happy to have a forum to discuss these things with others.

I welcome all view points, both those aligned with mine, and those contrary.

Poll
A poll to understand what YOU PERSONALLY have found when dealing with game publisher, Game Salute.
1. Have you personally dealt with Game Salute, and had at least one negative experience yourself?
Yes
No
Undecided - I have dealt with Game Salute, but don't know if I would classify any of it as negative yet
I have not dealt with Game Salute
2. Have you personally dealt with Game Salute, and had at least one positive experience yourself?
Yes
No
Undecided - I have dealt with Game Salute, but don't know if I would classify any of it as positive yet
I have not dealt with Game Salute
3. Would you classify your personal experiences with Game Salute as:
More Negative than Positive
More Positive than Negative
About equal Negative and Positive
I have not dealt with Game Salute
4. Have you seen this geeklist: Game Salute: A Cautionary Tale
Yes
No
I choose not to answer
5. Have you read this same geeklist: Game Salute: A Cautionary Tale
Yes, I have read most, if not all of it
Yes, I have read through about half of it
I have read some of it
No, I saw it, chose to ignore it
No, I didn't even know it existed
6. Did you feel that in Game Salute's almost 40 posts on that geeklist (Game Salute: A Cautionary Tale), that they took the time to get their story of events out so people could make an informed decision about them?
Yes, Game Salute was able to put forth their side
No, Game Salute was unable to put forth their side
I haven't read the list, so I don't know
7. If you have read that geeklist (Game Salute: A Cautionary Tale) would you say your opinion has changed of Game Salute?
Yes - my opinion has gone down
Yes - my opinion has gone up
No - it couldn't get lower than it already was
No - it couldn't get higher than it already was
No - the list didn't change my opinion at all, and there is room for it to change
I haven't read that geeklist
8. If you have read this geeklist (Game Salute: A Cautionary Tale), did you appreciate these Game Salute issues being brought to light?
Yes - I didn't know problems were this extensive
Yes - I knew about the problems, but was happy to have a forum to discuss them
No - I don't think there is any justification for this list, and it should have remained private
No - I don't believe there is a problem
I haven't read that geeklist
      628 answers
Poll created by crambaza
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Montgomery Van
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One of the three people making 'overriding points' got that thread locked - and then tipped 500GG to the person that locked it.

I'd like to think it wouldn't happen again, but... well, this is BGG.
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Bruce Gazdecki
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By personally dealt, do you mean backed a KS, or actually had discussion with them, or worked with them to deliver a game?
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You can't handle the truth?
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Bruiser419 wrote:
By personally dealt, do you mean backed a KS, or actually had discussion with them, or worked with them to deliver a game?
I just meant that you have an experience yourself with them, as opposed to only hearing about them from others.

Any experience, Kickstarter, a purchase, a conversation... anything, but that it was with YOU, not through a 3rd party.

I left it wide open.
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Michael Gardner
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I don't post a lot on these forums, but I use BGG daily and own many boardgames.

I have a huge problem with why a moderator closed that thread. The reasons he lists are without merit and reek of censorship.

Why not let the thread live or die on its own merit?

I'm seriously considering no longer using BGG, for whatever that's worth.



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Daniel Kearns
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Kirk Agathon wrote:
I don't post a lot on these forums, but I use BGG daily and own many boardgames.

I have a huge problem with why a moderator closed that thread. The reasons he lists are without merit and reek of censorship.

Why not let the thread live or die on its own merit?

I'm seriously considering no longer using BGG, for whatever that's worth.


Eh, that thread wasn't going anywhere anyway. It wasn't deleted or anything so we can revisit the good times whenever. don't sweat it.

I think it was catching user flags because I took a formal warning on the deal. I probably wasn't alone so that's probably why it was locked.

The geeklist is way more important anyway.
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You can't handle the truth?
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dkearns wrote:
Kirk Agathon wrote:
I don't post a lot on these forums, but I use BGG daily and own many boardgames.

I have a huge problem with why a moderator closed that thread. The reasons he lists are without merit and reek of censorship.

Why not let the thread live or die on its own merit?

I'm seriously considering no longer using BGG, for whatever that's worth.


Eh, that thread wasn't going anywhere anyway. It wasn't deleted or anything so we can revisit the good times whenever. don't sweat it.

I think it was catching user flags because I took a formal warning on the deal. I probably wasn't alone so that's probably why it was locked.

The geeklist is way more important anyway.
What were you moderated for?
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Kirk Agathon wrote:
I don't post a lot on these forums, but I use BGG daily and own many boardgames.

I have a huge problem with why a moderator closed that thread. The reasons he lists are without merit and reek of censorship.

Why not let the thread live or die on its own merit?

I'm seriously considering no longer using BGG, for whatever that's worth.





It was because the thread got way off topic, and devolved into arguing and thinly veiled personal attacks on posters.
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Daniel Kearns
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crambaza wrote:
dkearns wrote:
Kirk Agathon wrote:
I don't post a lot on these forums, but I use BGG daily and own many boardgames.

I have a huge problem with why a moderator closed that thread. The reasons he lists are without merit and reek of censorship.

Why not let the thread live or die on its own merit?

I'm seriously considering no longer using BGG, for whatever that's worth.


Eh, that thread wasn't going anywhere anyway. It wasn't deleted or anything so we can revisit the good times whenever. don't sweat it.

I think it was catching user flags because I took a formal warning on the deal. I probably wasn't alone so that's probably why it was locked.

The geeklist is way more important anyway.
What were you moderated for?


Not sure, they don't say specifically, but probably either mentioning Fox News or global warming (I keep forgetting science and politics are inseparable these days, my bad).
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Michael Carter
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Juju114 wrote:
Kirk Agathon wrote:
I don't post a lot on these forums, but I use BGG daily and own many boardgames.

I have a huge problem with why a moderator closed that thread. The reasons he lists are without merit and reek of censorship.

Why not let the thread live or die on its own merit?

I'm seriously considering no longer using BGG, for whatever that's worth.





It was because the thread got way off topic, and devolved into arguing and thinly veiled personal attacks on posters.


That's why the internet exists.
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Chad
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From one of my favorite cartoons: " If only there was a place where you could make any outrageous claim you want, with absolutely no proof, and millions of people would accept it as fact".

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Clare Cannon
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Wow Curt you really seem to have an axe to grind here.

One thread slamming Game salute wasn't enough?
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Jordan Booth
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I was made aware of the geeklist from the locked thread. While I hadn't had much trouble with buying direct from Game Salute's website or at conventions, the two threads did make me realize that I've backed a handful of their games on Kickstarter that are all way overdue with very few updates (less than one per month). So as it stands, for me, GS has some work to rebuild their reputation, and while I appreciate them taking a stab at addressing the issues in the geeklist, actions speak louder than words and I'd really like to see more fulfillment and less ponziing.
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Joe Browes
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Good idea to have a poll, surely this counts as Investigative Journalism, if not serious research science.
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David B
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Since their names sometimes get confused, I hope GameWright publishers escape unscathed. They rock!
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James
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Interociter wrote:
Good idea to have a poll, surely this counts as Investigative Journalism, if not serious research science.
In fairness to Curt, that is exactly the standard that one prominent and persistent critic of the other thread maintained had to be reached in order to validate the experiences of those who were commenting on it about their own negative experiences. The claim was that there wasn't an opportunity to hear dissenting voices, customers who had good experiences. Well, he's made about the most reasonable attempt he can make at offering a chance for those who've had positive experiences to answer that they have and have their responses weighted the same.

As I mentioned in the other thread, there is no Angie's list for board games: to the extent that there is one, BGG is it. I have never had dealings with this company so I am curious to see the responses myself, mostly positive or mostly negative. If this thread is slammed, too, I think it just has to be wondered what kind of reasonable standard has to be reached for any discussion of a company to be had on this site.
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Brother Jim wrote:
Interociter wrote:
Good idea to have a poll, surely this counts as Investigative Journalism, if not serious research science.
In fairness to Curt, that is exactly the standard that one prominent and persistent critic of the other thread maintained had to be reached in order to validate the experiences of those who were commenting on it about their own negative experiences. The claim was that there wasn't an opportunity to hear dissenting voices, customers who had good experiences. Well, he's made about the most reasonable attempt he can make at offering a chance for those who've had positive experiences to answer that they have and have their responses weighted the same.

As I mentioned in the other thread, there is no Angie's list for board games: to the extent that there is one, BGG is it. I have never had dealings with this company so I am curious to see the responses myself, mostly positive or mostly negative. If this thread is slammed, too, I think it just has to be wondered what kind of reasonable standard has to be reached for any discussion of a company to be had on this site.


I agree, this poll seems an eminently reasonable way to further the discussion of GS. I've never dealt with them either and am following the responses with interest.
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Nick Smith
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I'm curious why so many people agree that Game Salute 'told their side of the story' in the geeklist. I'm not sure I managed to find all their posts, but what i did see was hardly impressive. A relatively weak smattering of posts that was mostly either vague, highly general, or addressing only very specific and often minor details of individual projects. I didn't see a single satisfying answer in regards to any of the major issues raised, and not a single word about the unbelievably systemic and repetitive nature of the problem. Plus the responses seemed to cease entirely halfway through the list. So what was their side of the story supposed to be?

EDIT: Or is it that people are interpreting the poll to mean that they had the opportunity to put out their side of the story, regardless of whether they actually did so or not?
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grendelsbayne wrote:
I'm curious why so many people agree that Game Salute 'told their side of the story' in the geeklist. I'm not sure I managed to find all their posts, but what i did see was hardly impressive. A relatively weak smattering of posts that was mostly either vague, highly general, or addressing only very specific and often minor details of individual projects. I didn't see a single satisfying answer in regards to any of the major issues raised, and not a single word about the unbelievably systemic and repetitive nature of the problem. Plus the responses seemed to cease entirely halfway through the list. So what was their side of the story supposed to be?

EDIT: Or is it that people are interpreting the poll to mean that they had the opportunity to put out their side of the story, regardless of whether they actually did so or not?


I answered that I felt they "took the time to get their story of events out so people could make an informed decision about them." No, their answers were not very good, but I felt their posts helped me come to the conclusion that the real story is one of incompetence, disorganization, and mismanagement. In other words, I voted yes on that question because their posts did help me make an informed decision.
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exparrot wrote:
Wow Curt you really seem to have an axe to grind here.
One thread slamming Game salute wasn't enough?


I think Curt has been fairly straightforward with this thread that the purpose is to prevent "slamming" of Game Salute and make people think about how much they actually, personally, know.

I know that reading this OP made me take a step back, from "not going to buy anything Game Salute" to "maybe I should do more research before boycotting them forever." I'd like to think I'm not one for getting caught up in witch hunts, but it's a slippery slope for the best of us.

grendelsbayne wrote:
Or is it that people are interpreting the poll to mean that they had the opportunity to put out their side of the story, regardless of whether they actually did so or not?


I voted that they did not tell their side of the story, myself. That's not to defend them against any accusations, but just to say I didn't see much directly from them.

In fact, the majority of the "responses from Game Salute" that I personally saw in that geeklist were in the form of quotes that other, presumably non-affiliated, BGG users pulled from other threads and put there. To me, that doesn't really count as Game Salute having their say on this specific topic.
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Interociter wrote:
I agree, this poll seems an eminently reasonable way to further the discussion of GS. I've never dealt with them either and am following the responses with interest.
Oh, sorry, then; I had misinterpreted your initial post.
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Brother Jim wrote:
Interociter wrote:
Good idea to have a poll, surely this counts as Investigative Journalism, if not serious research science.
In fairness to Curt, that is exactly the standard that one prominent and persistent critic of the other thread maintained had to be reached in order to validate the experiences of those who were commenting on it about their own negative experiences. The claim was that there wasn't an opportunity to hear dissenting voices, customers who had good experiences. Well, he's made about the most reasonable attempt he can make at offering a chance for those who've had positive experiences to answer that they have and have their responses weighted the same.

As I mentioned in the other thread, there is no Angie's list for board games: to the extent that there is one, BGG is it. I have never had dealings with this company so I am curious to see the responses myself, mostly positive or mostly negative. If this thread is slammed, too, I think it just has to be wondered what kind of reasonable standard has to be reached for any discussion of a company to be had on this site.
I wasn't involved in the original brouhaha, but it seems blatantly obvious to me that this thread is far more likely to attract critics of the company than proponents or ambivalent people.

Pete (would also not have started this thread since it seems designed to continue the nonsense in the thread that was locked)
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Brother Jim wrote:
Interociter wrote:
[q="Brother Jim"]I agree, this poll seems an eminently reasonable way to further the discussion of GS. I've never dealt with them either and am following the responses with interest.
Oh, sorry, then; I had misinterpreted your initial post.


No worries, that's what I get for being a smart ass!
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plezercruz wrote:
I wasn't involved in the original brouhaha, but it seems blatantly obvious to me that this thread is far more likely to attract critics of the company than proponents or ambivalent people.

Pete (would also not have started this thread since it seems designed to continue the nonsense in the thread that was locked)
It certainly is the case that the OP has an axe to grind but it's also true that this is the most reasonable attempt that the community can demand of him to have a conversation that allows dissenting voices, customers who have had good experiences. He has invited people to offer dissent - even anonymously with a mouse click. This was asked by some critics, he's offered it.

I would suggest that the posts that got the thread locked had very little to do with the actual discussion itself. As far as the "nonsense" goes, well, one person's nonsense is another person's discussion. Participation in any thread remains optional. YMMV, though, Pete; though I have participated myself, I much prefer when the conversation can remain civil. It's clear you feel the same in the posts of yours I've read and enjoyed in the past.
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I just came in hopes of seeing some funny memes, again.

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