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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: More About Ethics Than Rules... rss

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James Patrick
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OK. I have a B'Moth and a Gr'Oth. Of course one is a K'T'Inga and the other is a D7. I thought that I might run the Named B'Moth and use the D7 model as a generic K'T'Inga. But it doesn't feel right. Feels like, at best, gamesmanship. At worst, out and out cheating. So I decided not to do it.

Anyone have an opinion? Am I right or just over-thinking it? I know that, ultimately, it's up to the TO but...Anyway. Opinions?
 
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Justin Gould
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Personally, I don't think it matters and if my opponent did that It would not bother me.

The models are just extra. Cool to look at. Most times when playing at home, we don't even use the models as they can get in the way if they get too close, easy to bump, and can be somewhat distracting. The plastic base and ships token is really all you need to represent a ship.

But that's just me.

[edit:] As the TO for my group, it would not bother me and I'm pretty sure it would not bother other players.
 
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Ghost Runner
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I think the rules generally allow figure proxies as long as both parties agree.

I doubt I'd have an issue with it. I tend to go more by the cards on the table and the bases than the figures.

 
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Wizkids already used the Gr'Oth model for Kronos One. I see no problem with it. Apparently, as far as Wizkids is concerned, they are interchangeable.
 
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Jonathan Bruce
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I guess the question is do you have the D7 cards?
 
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Will Holsclaw
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ex8404 wrote:
OK. I have a B'Moth and a Gr'Oth. Of course one is a K'T'Inga and the other is a D7. I thought that I might run the Named B'Moth and use the D7 model as a generic K'T'Inga. But it doesn't feel right. Feels like, at best, gamesmanship. At worst, out and out cheating. So I decided not to do it.

Anyone have an opinion? Am I right or just over-thinking it? I know that, ultimately, it's up to the TO but...Anyway. Opinions?


I don't think anyone would care about using one mini for the other--I can't tell my K'T'Ingas and D7s apart.

The real question is whether you'd be using a D7 *token* to sub for a K'T'Inga. If you only have a Gr'oth and a B'moth (and no Kronos One), that means you have one B'Moth/K'T'Inga token and one Gr'oth/D7 token. So I don't see how this is even an ethical question, unless you're planning on making a cardboard ship token that would pass as official.
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Jon Ginever
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Illyth wrote:
ex8404 wrote:
OK. I have a B'Moth and a Gr'Oth. Of course one is a K'T'Inga and the other is a D7. I thought that I might run the Named B'Moth and use the D7 model as a generic K'T'Inga. But it doesn't feel right. Feels like, at best, gamesmanship. At worst, out and out cheating. So I decided not to do it.

Anyone have an opinion? Am I right or just over-thinking it? I know that, ultimately, it's up to the TO but...Anyway. Opinions?


I don't think anyone would care about using one mini for the other--I can't tell my K'T'Ingas and D7s apart.

The real question is whether you'd be using a D7 *token* to sub for a K'T'Inga. If you only have a Gr'oth and a B'moth (and no Kronos One), that means you have one B'Moth/K'T'Inga token and one Gr'oth/D7 token. So I don't see how this is even an ethical question, unless you're planning on making a cardboard ship token that would pass as official.


This is the issue really, the problem is that the cardboard base-plates are different, and we're not just talking the stats and action bar, the K'tinga has a rear arc which isn't present on the D7, which makes it much harder to double up.
 
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James Patrick
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DonMegel wrote:
I guess the question is do you have the D7 cards?


Yes. Of course...however...

Illyth wrote:
The real question is whether you'd be using a D7 *token* to sub for a K'T'Inga. If you only have a Gr'oth and a B'moth (and no Kronos One), that means you have one B'Moth/K'T'Inga token and one Gr'oth/D7 token. So I don't see how this is even an ethical question, unless you're planning on making a cardboard ship token that would pass as official.


That is indeed, the real question. Wish I had thought of it before I wrote this. With one D7 and one K'T'Inga, I don't have enough base cards. So...never mind? If I want to run multiple K'T'Ingas, I will have to get a Kronos One.
 
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Justin Hare
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Krona's One is a solid if unexceptional expansion. I get a lot of mileage out of the generic k'tinga and Kerla.

You're not just dumping money if you buy the expansion
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James Patrick
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Church14 wrote:
Krona's One is a solid if unexceptional expansion. I get a lot of mileage out of the generic k'tinga and Kerla.

You're not just dumping money if you buy the expansion


Yeah. I kind of ignored it but ever since I pulled the B'Moth, I am looking at it again. The B'Moth just seems to survive every time I've used it.
 
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Heath Kohanek

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I proxy B'rel and the other bird of prey model.
 
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Kronos One and the Gr'oth are the same model. So the Gr'oth can substitute for a K'tinga. Its not a rules violation or an ethical one.
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James Patrick
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sylphilis wrote:
I proxy B'rel and the other bird of prey model.


How do you get around not having the base card for one ship?
 
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Jon Ginever
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
Kronos One and the Gr'oth are the same model. So the Gr'oth can substitute for a K'tinga. Its not a rules violation or an ethical one.


No, but this isn't really about 'is it wrong to swap my K'tinga model for a D7 model and see if anyone notices', its about can I put out my D7 model alongside my K'tinga and pretend its another K'tinga class so I don't have to buy a second K'tinga expansion'.

When it comes down to it, this is really just another version of 'it is ok to print my own tokens/cards so I don't have to buy the actual stuff' question which is as old as the hills.

IMHO if you don't own the base-token for a ship, you should not be using that ship. The plastic base and the token that sits on it actually ARE the ship as far as the game mechanics go (since the only thing you need the gaming piece for is determining movement and firing arcs, if you don't have both of those you can't use the ship.
 
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James Patrick
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Spiney_Norman wrote:
IMHO if you don't own the base-token for a ship, you should not be using that ship. The plastic base and the token that sits on it actually ARE the ship as far as the game mechanics go (since the only thing you need the gaming piece for is determining movement and firing arcs, if you don't have both of those you can't use the ship.


yeah. That's pretty much what I decided before I even wrote the first post. Just wanted to see what other players thought. And I was tired of reading about GenCon exclusives.

It's not that I was trying to avoid buying a Kronos One either. I was just never particularly interested in Klingon Expansions until recently. What I really want is a couple of extra Vor'chas. But those are pretty scarce, even on eBay.
 
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Sodoff Baldrick
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As long as you have the cards and base token I don't think most people will care. When they first came out I replaced all of my K'Tinga models with the tactics model that looks like the current B'Moth because I wanted to easily tell the difference between them and the D7.

In friendly TOS games I use the green D7 model as both the D7 & Raptor class. The stats and dial are the same, but action and upgrade bars different. We count them as "Science Class" D7s instead of the regular "Patrol Class". It works for me because personally I don't care for the lookof the raptor.
 
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Scooter of the Ancients
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Attack Wing is a Card Game. The Models attached to the pegs are Window Dressing. They make the game look nice, but they aren't the game. You can fly an X-Wing Fighter, A Ping-Pong Ball, and Lego Batman on top of those Pegs, show me what cards you have (oh and the base and dial should match the card) that's what I'm playing against.
 
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Quote:
No, but this isn't really about 'is it wrong to swap my K'tinga model for a D7 model and see if anyone notices', its about can I put out my D7 model alongside my K'tinga and pretend its another K'tinga class so I don't have to buy a second K'tinga expansion'.


That wasn't the question that was asked, so was not what I was responding to. I was simply speaking to the minis which is what the OP mentioned. The minis for the K'tinga/D-7/B'Moth/Gr'oth/Kronos One are all interchangeable. Personally, if I'm just running one of them I'm going to use the B'Moth mini no matter which its representing. Looks pretty cool.
 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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Considering that we haven't actually gotten a model of a D7 yet... I don't see it as a problem. The D7 expansion pack came with a badly modeled K'tinga ship anyway. The D7 was grey and smooth and did not have all the textured detail that was on the K'Tinga ships (not to mention the silly sideways bridge on the Attack Wing models).
 
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Aaron Percival
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There's nothing wrong with using the same models. What is at issue is not having the maneuver dial or card or having the base token.
 
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