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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Am I the only one that did not realize the miniatures needed to be assembled? rss

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Greg Silberman
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It probably should have been obvious but I had not realized the miniatures would need to be assembled and based until the last update from FFP. I really am not that inclined towards that part of the hobby anymore. Does anyone have any insight into how complex/difficult the models will be to assemble? IF there weren't so many I would be tempted to outsource the process and possibly have them painted as well.

Any insight greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Greg
 
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David Mason
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Reading the update this seems to have been a post-KS decision. Possibly a missed opportunity to see what backers thought.

According to the update a "full set of figures" took 30 min to put everything together. Not sure what a full set consists of...
 
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Well, the update says that they expect a box to be assembled in half an hour. Now, for 32 figures, that seems a bit optimistic to me, even if some of them are a single piece, but clipping from sprues, tidying up the connection points and assembling the figures that have extra pieces seems pretty low key.

Especially since we're only getting 2 boxes in wave one (far as we know at least), and a good 5th of the figures (the tentacles) seem to be just a single piece attached to a base (you can see a bunch on sprue in one of the pictures).

It might be a bit more effort than some originally anticipated, but they did warn us in Oct/Nov (in comments at least, I haven't trawled the updates themselves) that sprues and some assembly may be possibilities.

Worst case scenario, hopefully the people that hate assembly have friends that don't mind it. Or cost effective artists/services in the area.

Edit: @David: Nope, they talked about it during the campaign as a possibility. The final call to have sprues and some assembly may have been post campaign, but this was a possible outcome since Oct last year.
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William Gaskill
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I don't think FFP made it really clear but they did indicate that
some assembly would be required. It seems that all the miniatures will
need some assembly but for the regular size it would just be basing .

The larger figs will need a bit more work like wings & torsos ,
I don't think we'll have to worry about any really difficult
stuff.

OD
 
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Bryan K
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I had to assemble models for Dreadball, it was a little bit of a pain in the butt. You also need to file down the parts of the model connected to the plastic after you tear them off. I'm guessing the big models need gluing and all the models will need to be glued to the base. Not a deal breaker, but some work. Gluing allows more freedom in design for the models. So, the models should look pretty cool!
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Does seem a little odd for boardgames these days. The last bit of assembly I had to do for a boardgame was Space Hulk (third edition). Prior to that, maybe the wings you snapped on for the dragon in Descent? But even then I didn't have to do any sprue-cutting. Boardgames seem almost always preassembled. I can see why some people will be taken aback by this (I personally don't care, just find it odd).

-shnar
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Gavin Downing
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Well, they did note throughout the campaign whenever asked that assembly vs pre-assembled wasn't something finalized yet, but that some were almost guaranteed to need assembly. So the idea that at least some will be assembled is not new; just that pretty much all the figures will need at least minor assembly (such as being glued to their base).

As far as a "full set of figures," the impression I got is a single base set (either a box of Swamps of Death or a box of City of the Ancients).
 
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Ken H.
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It was discussed a couple months back when photos first started coming out. You could see join lines on some of the prototypes. At that time, FFP said they were still sorting out the manufacturing process, but they acknowledged that some of the minis were specifically designed to be customizable. (Serpentmen were mentioned.)

So, it was mentioned before, but I think most of us have been holding out hope that the majority of the miniatures would not require assembly.


brautigan25 wrote:
According to the update a "full set of figures" took 30 min to put everything together. Not sure what a full set consists of...


Yeah, I wondered what that means too. A "set" could be all of them (presumably just the two core boxes), or it could be one core box, or it could be one sprue of whatever is on it, like a set of hellbats, or a set of Night Terrors, etc.

I have no idea. I've never done it before, and while I'm still ridiculously excited about this game, I'm not looking forward to the assembly process.


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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Sprue Cutting more so than assembly is where I think it starts to blur the lines between a boardgame and a miniatures game...

-shnar
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Brian M
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Quote:
It probably should have been obvious but I had not realized the miniatures would need to be assembled...

I don't think anyone did until the last update.

From the photos, it looks like the models will be fairly simple, but it really depends on how well they are designed. A good simple model will have pegs and holes that fit together well. A less good model will not have clear connections and require pieces to be held in place while gluing (this is much more of a pain, but allows more customization of the pieces).

Sprue snipping is a bit of a pain, but even a good pair of sharp scissors works well for it.

If the minis are well done, don't be intimidated by them. Putting pieces together really isn't too hard.

If the minis aren't well done, it could be a whole different story. But hopefully that is not the case.
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shnar wrote:
Does seem a little odd for boardgames these days. The last bit of assembly I had to do for a boardgame was Space Hulk (third edition). Prior to that, maybe the wings you snapped on for the dragon in Descent? But even then I didn't have to do any sprue-cutting. Boardgames seem almost always preassembled. I can see why some people will be taken aback by this (I personally don't care, just find it odd).


Heroquest back in the 80's had figures on sprues.

Granted, that has ties to Games Workshop, but it's not unheard of, even in the long long ago.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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I don't have a problem with it, I just imagine there will be a good number of non-mini-gamers that will. Too bad too, this game looks top notch and I'd hate to see anyone shy away from anyone playing just because the minis need cutting/assembling.

-shnar
 
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Joe F.
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I was expecting most of the minatures to be in one piece, like other FFP games, but it isn't a deal breaker. So now, what type of glue is recommended for these things, and type of clippers?

Basically someone who knows more than nothing(me) please let me know what I need to have to assembly these things the right way. Thanks.
 
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shnar wrote:
I don't have a problem with it, I just imagine there will be a good number of non-mini-gamers that will. Too bad too, this game looks top notch and I'd hate to see anyone shy away from anyone playing just because the minis need cutting/assembling.


Eh, can't please all of the people all of the time.

I'm sure that if they'd turned around and said 'I'm sorry, we chose to go with single piece or two piece figures with snap connections, and lost some detail/options that we wanted to go with', there'd be people up in arms over that too.

Apologies if I'm taking you too literally, but in a sampling of nearly 5,000 people, there's going to be someone sad/disappointed/pissed off no matter how you cut it, for any number of reasons, some more or less reasonable than others.

Will this stop some people from buying it? Probably. So will the sheer size of the box (probably make for a good sized coffee table in some apartments out there), or the number of figures (pre-assembled or not), or the aesthetic, or the cost, or any number of a thousand other reasons.

Personally, if my friends decided they were interested but couldn't be bothered putting it together, I'd tell them to bugger off to the other room and I'd put it together myself, and I'm not even 'a minis guy'.

Then again, as a veteran of "Spartangate" in the Robotech Miniatures kickstarter campaign, I'm basically impervious to minis concerns. These things seem to be 1-5 pieces in figures 1.5 to several inches tall?

Try 15-25'ish pieces on a figure under an inch and a half tall. Now imagine building like 50+ of them. Per faction.
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Matt Price
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Forar wrote:

Then again, as a veteran of "Spartangate" in the Robotech Miniatures kickstarter campaign, I'm basically impervious to minis concerns. These things seem to be 1-5 pieces in figures 1.5 to several inches tall?

Try 15-25'ish pieces on a figure under an inch and a half tall. Now imagine building like 50+ of them. Per faction.


Ouch! Is that what "spartangate" refers to? (why "Spartan"? Is that the name of the company?) Sounds a little like Sedition Wars. I was "that guy" who got handed his buddy's copy of the game, and they were kinda irritating to put together. Hours and lots of greenstuff later, and we find out the game isn't even very good! lol.

I'm a minis hobbyist, so I'm very excited, but yeah, this is kinda unusual for a boardgame. Brings me back to Eagle Games about 10+ years ago - you'd get hundreds of ~1/72 scale plastic figures to chop out of a bunch of sprues. They were hard to remove, but at least they were all mostly one piece (some cannons were snap-together, and some cavalry the rider would just plop down on the horses)
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mattprice wrote:
Ouch! Is that what "spartangate" refers to? (why "Spartan"? Is that the name of the company?)


Palladium Books is the company making the game in conjunction with Ninja Division, whom themselves are a conglomeration of members from a few companies including Soda Pop Miniatures, Cypher Studios, and others.

Long story short, there was a picture released of a Spartan "Destroid" (think bipedal tank) that had massive gaps in it. The community... was unhappy. It was explained that for some unknown reason, the figure had been assembled, primed, disassembled, reassembled and THEN the picture had been taken, but the damage was done. Also, this was when the community realized the figures were made up of a LOT of parts, far more than we'd anticipated. Not only did this critique mostly fall upon deaf ears, PB then doubled down with an update explaining in figurative crayon that this was how it MUST be, based on the source material, and despite some people with minis/plastic experience giving suggestions on how it might be improved.

Update 134 (the prototype pics): 177 comments.
Update 135 (explaining why things are they way they are): 1,574 comments.

So... yeah. It was ugly. Reasonable critique and suggestions being mocked by some backers who seemed to take anything but love and adoration as blasphemy didn't help.

There had always been a small but dedicated group of backers who kept chatting away in the comments, but this issue was the first thing that really brought hundreds of backers in, expressing their displeasure.

Really, until some recent shenanigans involving Gencon that has brought in around 1/3 of the backers, it was the most contentious issue we'd seen throughout the campaign.
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Adam Canning
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mattprice wrote:
Forar wrote:

Then again, as a veteran of "Spartangate" in the Robotech Miniatures kickstarter campaign, I'm basically impervious to minis concerns. These things seem to be 1-5 pieces in figures 1.5 to several inches tall?

Try 15-25'ish pieces on a figure under an inch and a half tall. Now imagine building like 50+ of them. Per faction.


Ouch! Is that what "spartangate" refers to? (why "Spartan"? Is that the name of the company?)


The Spartan is the unit for which we saw the pieces.

is a piece breakdown after they reduced the number of bits.


Assembled protottypes

While the Battlecry pledge [The basic one with all the stretch goals] only includes 2 Spartans, it includes another 95 or so mechs and air/spacecraft figures and the rules set is built round you fielding 30-40 figures at a time.
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Brian M
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Quote:
So now, what type of glue is recommended for these things, and type of clippers?

Honestly, you can get by fine with a pair of good scissors. Often, if you are fearless, you can get by fine just carefully twisting them off the sprues!

The glue depends on exactly what material they are made of. Super glue will work on anything, but if the material is right, you can use model glue. Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Testor-Corp-Plastic-Model-Glue/dp/B003...

(which basically hasn't changed in the last twenty years). Either kind of glue will only cost a few bucks.

Quote:
Then again, as a veteran of "Spartangate" in the Robotech Miniatures kickstarter campaign, I'm basically impervious to minis concerns. These things seem to be 1-5 pieces in figures 1.5 to several inches tall?

Try 15-25'ish pieces on a figure under an inch and a half tall. Now imagine building like 50+ of them. Per faction.

Ugh. Yes. I'm a minis gamer and Robotech has me utterly overwhelmed. I'm seriously figuring I'll just sell the damn thing rather than put those together. Compared to that, Shadows minis are nothing!
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Jonathan Franklin
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Any hope of a version with simple cardboard standees at a lower price point?
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Brian M
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grandslam wrote:
Any hope of a version with simple cardboard standees at a lower price point?

Oh sure, they do cardboard versions of miniatures games all the time!

No, sorry, I'm lying. They don't. I think your odds are better of hoping to win the lottery and have the money to easily just have someone else assemble and paint the minis for you.
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Brian M
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I would venture a guess (which is just a wild guess) that the heroes, tentacles, hungry dead and void spiders will probably be single piece models. If that is correct, you'll only need to assemble 10 figures per box. And presumably glue everything to bases.
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Jonathan Franklin
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Fair enough - I have all the unpainted minis for ATOE and F&G, so maybe it will be fine.

Painting, not so much.
 
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Frank Franco
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Hehehe, well lots of people were hoping this would be the spiritual successor to Warhammer Quest...

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

Personally as long as there is nothing like that fucking dragon in Super Dungeon Explore I'm fine with a bit of assembly.
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Brian M
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Quote:
Hehehe, well lots of people were hoping this would be the spiritual successor to Warhammer Quest...

20 years later, and most of my goblins, orcs and skaven still don't have shields.

Actually though, other than that and bases, I don't think the WHQ minis required much assembly.
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Jason Sly
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I'd highly recommend folks who may not be model builders and already have some to buy flush cut clippers. They're easy to track down, you can even find them at Wal-Mart in the craft section. I bought them years ago when I was big into the Stikfas action figures and haven't looked back. As the name would imply, unlike scissors and most other cutting utensils the blades meet flush together and you can shear things off right along the model with almost no sprue to have to clean up after.

You can of course get by with just scissors or breaking them off by hand, but those seconds of sanding or trimming afterwards can add up, certainly when you're putting together dozens of figures.
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