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Subject: Fading Glory VS Napoleon 4th rss

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Juhan Voolaid
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So I am thinking if I should get Fading Glory while I already have Napoleon: The Waterloo Campaign, 1815, nice 4th ed from Colombia Games. I know they are very different, because the other is block war game (without hexagon map), but they are similar too, in a way both are sort of operational level (at least on the big map), right?

So I wonder, what Fading Glory would add to my game experience that Napoleon 4th does not. How will FG challenges me differently?

I'm a sucker for light/fast war games and also having 2 different games on the Waterloo seems interesting - to have different takes on the same battle. Not, when they challenge me the same way.
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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I own both games, and greatly prefer Nap4th for playing the Waterloo campaign, as Nap4 is more detailed without being more complex or much slower to play.

FG however has 3 other battles, that are all far better (IMO) games than the waterloo scenario.

The scale in FG is higher as units are mostly corps and the scenarios uses random event cards which gives them a very nice narrative and also makes them excellent for solitaire play.
I suggest you see Marco Arnoudos reviews of some of the Napoleon20 games to see if the series if for you.

I find the Napoleon 20 games ok, but would choose Nap4th over FG any day for playing the waterloo camopaign (unless I am playing solitaire)
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Juhan Voolaid
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One thing that I like that FG has are random effects and as you say - narrative effect. I really like that in Combat Commander, so can you give examples of random effects that you like. What creates the narrative?

But I am surprised that you find Napoleon4 to be more detailed and complex. Napoleon4 is as abstract as I am willing to go with my wargames and I was hoping FG to be the next small step in complexity level.

So is it really so? Should I be worried that FG feels too abstract to me? What does the system have more beside moving you chits together and roll who wins? Anything cool that gives that Napoleonic flavor?

I know I should read the rules, but talking is more fun :)

(I am worried because the system is created by Victory Points and to me the No Retreat! was too abstract - may be the GMT version is better)
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Based on your latest post I dont think FG is for you at all.
FG is very abstract, and is in its essense an old-school style wargame with factor counting and hard ZOC (Zone of Control) rules. The system is called Napoleon 20 because neither side in any of the games have more than 20 counters. In Waterloo 20 its more like 5-10 units per side. This neccesarily means a lot of stuff is abstracted out.

Some of the events (which are drawn at the beginning of each players turn BT) I like is stuff like preventing you from moving into ZOCs this turn (representing command confusion etc) or increasing the combat value of certain units (representing good troops/commanders). It keeps the game unpredictable while at the same time have the randomnes contained within actual historical or very plausible occurences
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Have you looked at the Command and Colors: Napoleonics series from GMT?

That might be more your cup of tea (and also one of my favorites), although the scale is lower than Nap4th
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Juhan Voolaid
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Thanks mate! I was drawn to FG only because of good reviews, but as I see it is something different than I expected. Will think about it, if it fits to my collection or not.

I am not a fan of CC series and Napoleonic wars is not really my favorite. But if something brilliant comes up, I definitely take a look.
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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If you are looking for a truly awesome operational level game on a non-napoleonic subject that is still simple to learn I strongly recommend Strike of the Eagle from Academy Games. It covers the Polish-Soviet War in 1920 and is the first game in a series that will (hopefully) soon see a WWII-North Africa, a Korean War and a WWII-Burma game as well.

Brian
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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If you like the battleboard from Nap4th but would like some more depth and detail on the operational level then Bobby Lee from Columbia Games would be the perfect choice.
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Juhan Voolaid
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Yeah, I am actually looking for something on the operational level. Having my eye on the Standard Combat Series, but then again I already have (unplayed) A Victory Denied: Crisis at Smolensk, July-September, 1941. Will see :)
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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try seeing one of the videoreviews of Strike of the Eagle.
Its a mix of carddriven games, block games, and A Game of Thrones combined and with first grade components.
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