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Subject: The problem of not counting cash as part of scoring rss

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Derek Carver
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Folk have already commented upon what they see as a problem of inequality of player order given that the number of rounds is not equally divisible by player numbers. But I see the lack of including cash in the final scoring - it is merely a tie breaker - as a connected but far more serious problem. In fact it is bothering our group so much that unless we sort it it could prevent this otherwise excellent game from hitting the table.

We find that by the final round most players are not desperately short of cash. And because it is valueless at the end other than breaking ties they are happy to spend it more recklessly than normal in buying up dice. Last evening, for example, the poor player when it came to his turn in the final round had no dice of any use left to him. But he had an enormous pile of useless cash!

This "No tomorrow" aspect in the final turn of games can often spoil an otherwise good game and designers usually address this potential problem; such as limiting the size of bets one can place in a race game, thus preventing players from dumping all their worldly wealth on the final race thereby distorting all that has gone before. Some games even have within the rules a system whereby players do not know it is the final turn so have to prepare for a future.

I feel TROYES needs this with regard to cash but one mustn't distort the scoring.

Have others encountered this same problem?

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Chris Broggi
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Doesn't one of the bonus cards give victory points for cash? Even if you don't have the card, someone else may, so you need to keep a hold of your cash, especially if you see someone else with a hoard of cash.
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Ken Thibodeau
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broggi wrote:
Doesn't one of the bonus cards give victory points for cash? Even if you don't have the card, someone else may, so you need to keep a hold of your cash, especially if you see someone else with a hoard of cash.


This, definitely. Plus, in most card setups there will be at least one card or a combo that allows you to buy VPs/influence with money. And you still can buy other players' dice as well.
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Mark Johnson
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“Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman’s taken my life, But what does it matter, for all men must die, and I’ve tasted the Dornishman’s wife!”
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If there are open VP slots on activity cards, you can virtually always buy VP.
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Gar Per
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Sounds to me like a re-read of the rules is in order. Coins are not a tiebreaker. There is no tiebreaker.

Other mistakes it seems may be in play:

1. Possibly not paying enough for dice throughout (because you have tons of money)
2. Possibly not scoring character cards correctly. (Because of thought that coins are not worth VP)
3. Possibly buying dice/forming groups incorrectly (seems off for last player to have nothing to do)
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Bryan Maxwell
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Understanding the cost of buying dice is usually the hardest thing for new players to get their heads around. I explain it like this:

When you're going to buy dice, first ask "How many dice are going to be used for this action?" then base the cost of each die you're buying on the answer. If the action uses 3 dice, then each purchased die costs $6 even if you're only buying one of them. They often interpret the rules/cheat sheet as "buying 1 die = $2, 2 dice =$4 or 3 dice = $6."

Not saying the OP is playing anything wrong, but excess money isn't usually an issue because buying dice is so expensive. This is just a reminder of the rules to make sure we're all on the same page (that goes for me too).
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Ken Thibodeau
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nate_lockhart wrote:
Sounds to me like a re-read of the rules is in order. Coins are not a tiebreaker. There is no tiebreaker.

Other mistakes it seems may be in play:

1. Possibly not paying enough for dice throughout (because you have tons of money)
2. Possibly not scoring character cards correctly. (Because of thought that coins are not worth VP)
3. Possibly buying dice/forming groups incorrectly (seems off for last player to have nothing to do)


Maybe also:

4. All players score all character cards in play, including those of the opponents. So even if you don't have the money character, you should consider it may be held by someone else.
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Derek Carver
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Thank you everyone. Much appreciated.

For the sake of the record I believe we all play the rules correctly. My only 'mistake' is probably in saying cash is a tie breaker. This could be a house rule because we run an annual league where final ranking is needed if possible so we could have invented a rule for this otherwise useless cash.

And whilst I accept that the last player with all the cash he has collected could buy opponents' dice, all the good ones have gone by that time in a multiplayer game.

As I mentioned, it is a problem only for the final turn when players have no further use for their cash so are happy to spend it all buying up so many dice. Other turns they are far more cautious with their money.

(I accept there could be a character card that rewards cash but in all our games I have never had it. Of course, it would be great if the final player who had so much cash dumped on him turned out to have it but that has never happened with us as yet either. His joy would have been memorable! I also acknowledge there is an action card that enables one to convert cash to VPs but to my recollection - I am nowhere near my game right now - that would still need decent value yellow dice. It might not even turn up in the game.)
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Ori Avtalion
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Carver wrote:
(I accept there could be a character card that rewards cash but in all our games I have never had it. Of course, it would be great if the final player who had so much cash dumped on him turned out to have it but that has never happened with us as yet either. His joy would have been memorable! I also acknowledge there is an action card that enables one to convert cash to VPs but to my recollection - I am nowhere near my game right now - that would still need decent value yellow dice. It might not even turn up in the game.)

In case it is unclear, character cards affect ALL players. Having the card only gives you information the other players do not have, but all cards are revealed at the end and all players score according to them.

Your wording makes me suspect you score the character cards only for the players who own them.
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Ken Thibodeau
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SaltyHorse wrote:
Carver wrote:
(I accept there could be a character card that rewards cash but in all our games I have never had it. Of course, it would be great if the final player who had so much cash dumped on him turned out to have it but that has never happened with us as yet either. His joy would have been memorable! I also acknowledge there is an action card that enables one to convert cash to VPs but to my recollection - I am nowhere near my game right now - that would still need decent value yellow dice. It might not even turn up in the game.)

In case it is unclear, character cards affect ALL players. Having the card only gives you information the other players do not have, but all cards are revealed at the end and all players score according to them.

Your wording makes me suspect you score the character cards only for the players who own them.


I share your suspicion and that was my point higher in the thread.

Edit: There are 6 character cards. So if you play a 2-p game, you have 4 chances out of 6 (66%) to have a scoring for money (each player has 2 character cards and EVERY player scores ALL the character cards in play).

In a 3-p game, you have 50% of having a money scoring and again 66% in a 4-p game.

So it's really risky not to consider money as part of your strategy.
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Enon Sci
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SaltyHorse wrote:

Your wording makes me suspect you score the character cards only for the players who own them.


Bloody hell. I've been playing this wrong for a year now!

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Derek Carver
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My life Ori. I hadn"t registered that. What a dimmy.

Normally I dislike these individual objectives but having them affect everybody puts a different complexion on it.

Thanks for that (and thanks to others who spotted this

Derek
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Brent Wilson
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Carver wrote:
My life Ori. I hadn"t registered that. What a dimmy.

Normally I dislike these individual objectives but having them affect everybody puts a different complexion on it.

Thanks for that (and thanks to others who spotted this

Derek


I'm glad that was straightened out. You'll might find Troyes is a totally different game for your group now since the shared-but-secret victory conditions is one of the defining mechanics of the game.
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