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Subject: Seems really expensive rss

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Silver Bowen
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$20 seems like a lot for this. As far as I can tell it mostly adds cards that let Resistance play like Avalon. Not sure the MSRP on the base, but it can't be more than the asking price here. It seems to be doing gangbusters, so obviously $20 isn't too much for lots of folks, but I don't get it.
 
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Stuart Finlay
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DeMorcerf wrote:
From what I can tell, it looks like the content is:

Hostile Intent
Hunter Module: New
Reverser Module: New but sounds similar to having multiple Excaliburs
Inquisitor Module: Lady of the Lake from Avalon

Hidden Agenda
Assassin Module: Original special roles from Avalon
Defector Module: Lancelot Promos from Avalon
Trapper Module: New

KS Exclusive
Rogue Agent Module: New
Sergeant Module: Excalibur Promo from Avalon


From what I can see the MSRPs of The Resistance/Avalon are both $20. Since this double expansion essentially gives you all of Avalon and its promos plus a 3.5 new modules I don't think it's bad value at all. If you have to buy them both separately in future I expect the price will be even less compelling.

I think there are valid complaints to be made (post KS) such as how the Avalon (or new) stuff is split between both expansions so those who wanted just one are forced to buy both.

It also sucks for those who own Avalon as they're left out in the cold to a certain extent. Honestly though from what I've seen the Avalon setting never really took hold and though I'll now have to buy the new 2nd edition* I think it's a good move to return the focus to the original game.

Edit: For context I should probably state that I believe the value of the game lies in the design and rules rather than the components.
* My 1st edition is worn out, marked and missing a Spy and my Avalon copy is about to become redundant.
 
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Silver Bowen
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But this KS doesn't give you the base game, just the expansions. If it was an all-in thing (like Coup: Reformation at $30), and some sort of special edition, it would seem more appealing to me. Even at C:R's higher price.
 
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Jeffrey
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If you are a big time Resistance person like a lot of my friends are, you'll happily pay $20 for any new content, and it'll be worth it because you'll play it a lot.

If you bought Resistance but not Avalon, it'll be worth it because so much of it is new to you.

If you have already bought Resistance and Avalon but don't play either very much, then it probably isn't worth it.

If you haven't bought any version of Resistance yet, just buy the base game.
 
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Stuart Finlay
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Clearly they could produce a single box solution for similar money but that's just bad business and makes people who purchased the original games feel like they're being gouged.

To get what the KS plus an original game gives you you'd have to buy either:
Avalon ($20) + Plot Cards ($5?) + Avalon Promos ($5?) + New Modules ($?) = $30+$?
or
Resistance ($20) + Avalon ($20) + Avalon Promos ($5?) + New Modules ($?) = $45+$?

Instead the option here is
Resistance + Expansions = $40

Do you feel the expansion would be poor value at $10?
 
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Brian Nolte
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I've been back and forth on this issue myself. Here's where I land:

Resistance: Avalon KS'ed for $20, now sells on CSI for $13 and change. Coup KS'ed for for $15, sells on CSI for $10. Coup: Reformation KS'ed for $20, available for pre-order for $8. I have to imagine this $20 KS will eventually end up on CSI for ... well something less that $20.

Now mind you you've not getting any of the KS exclusives. So maybe that's where the extra value is. Bit of a values question...

As for me, I backed it.
 
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Tyler Bishop
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stuartfinlay wrote:

Instead the option here is
Resistance + Expansions = $40

Do you feel the expansion would be poor value at $10?


Minor correction: The Resistance is available as a post-campaign addon for $14 (assuming the prices on this campaign match Call of Duty Honor and Duty).
 
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Brendan Little
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$20 seems perfect to me. We are getting a lot of stuff. Tokens, cards, instruction manuals, boxes, etc. plus the intellectual property of the modules.

If you don't like it, then don't buy it?
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Silver Bowen
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brendover wrote:
$20 seems perfect to me. We are getting a lot of stuff. Tokens, cards, instruction manuals, boxes, etc. plus the intellectual property of the modules.

If you don't like it, then don't buy it?


There are multiple boxes and manuals?

And yeah, no duh, of course I'm not going to buy it if I don't like it. So far leaning towards no, but not completely decided.
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Will Beckley
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brewdinar wrote:
Minor correction: The Resistance is available as a post-campaign addon for $14 (assuming the prices on this campaign match Call of Duty Honor and Duty).


My calculation, as an Avalon owner: If I was willing to (happily) pay $30 for ultimate Coup, I'd just as happily pay $34 for ultimate Resistance. Common theme (and with Inquisitors and Assassins at the very least, perhaps a broader shared universe) is just an added bonus. Repurchasing Coup and Resistance still leaves me in a place where I've gotten more sheer enjoyment from these games per dollar spent than most of my collection has given.
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Jarrett Dunn
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My only problem (and I backed it myself) is the fact they are even using Kickstarter. They've published several games already, they've made profit on those game (or I would hope they do), sink the profit into the company and use that to publish it instead of asking us to pay the upfront costs for you. I get they are a small company, but other small companies have to do it and operate just fine. Seems too much like they are getting us to pay for all the publishing and risk, keeping all the profit for themselves and never putting any of it back into their own company or taking any of the risk themselves which I just don't like.

Like I said I get it for first time publishers, but this is someone whose made several games and has been around awhile. And yes I am a bit jaded and judgmental because I am in a heavily regulated industry. And I honestly believe everyone should have the same restrictions on them.
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John Q.T. Nguyen
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mltdwn wrote:
My only problem (and I backed it myself) is the fact they are even using Kickstarter. They've published several games already, they've made profit on those game (or I would hope they do), sink the profit into the company and use that to publish it instead of asking us to pay the upfront costs for you. I get they are a small company, but other small companies have to do it and operate just fine. Seems too much like they are getting us to pay for all the publishing and risk, keeping all the profit for themselves and never putting any of it back into their own company or taking any of the risk themselves which I just don't like.
I share some of the same sentiments, but part of that may be a little bit of bitterness that I missed out on the Coup: Reformation Kickstarter because I was out at the time and would really, really love to have Ultimate Coup.

I've bought the game twice over now at this point and would willingly buy a copy of Ultimate Coup at retail if I was able, but alas... One of the major things that gets me with Kickstarter campaign funded board games is when something that adds/changes gameplay is offered only as a Kickstarter exclusive and I think Ultimate Coup kind of fits into that category.

Getting back to the Resistance and this campaign specifically...

LocutusZero wrote:
If you are a big time Resistance person like a lot of my friends are, you'll happily pay $20 for any new content, and it'll be worth it because you'll play it a lot.

If you bought Resistance but not Avalon, it'll be worth it because so much of it is new to you.
These both apply to me and I am more than happy to fork over the money without even a second thought, especially given that I would want the two promos because I like the Resistance that much. I'm glad I was able to catch this Kickstarter in time, especially since their campaigns run so short!

Edit: Just a quick note to add that I don't feel like this campaign is unreasonable or gouge-y at all unlike some other Kickstarters that I've backed or pulled out of recently because it seemed not on the level. I really feel like Indie Boards and Cards is giving me a good value for my money and doing everything that they can to make sure that this is the case.
 
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Scott
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My only real complaint is that they didn't include a bundle with Resistance in this like they did with Coup with the Coup expansion Kickstarter not too long ago. I have yet to own Resistance, but I play it a decent amount and like it, so it seems weird they wouldn't have a bundle option for those who don't already own the base. :/
 
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snarfel wrote:
My only real complaint is that they didn't include a bundle with Resistance in this like they did with Coup with the Coup expansion Kickstarter not too long ago. I have yet to own Resistance, but I play it a decent amount and like it, so it seems weird they wouldn't have a bundle option for those who don't already own the base. :/


Technically you CAN add on a copy of The Resistance but you aren't allowed to do it via the Kickstarter. When the funding ends, IB&C are offering "great pricing" on older titles to backers which they can only pay for through Paypal. I'm assuming IB&C don't want to give Kickstarter a cut of that money but still take advantage of the shipping we already paid for the expansions.

It's just another hoop you have to jump though.
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Chris
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mltdwn wrote:
My only problem (and I backed it myself) is the fact they are even using Kickstarter. They've published several games already, they've made profit on those game (or I would hope they do), sink the profit into the company and use that to publish it instead of asking us to pay the upfront costs for you. I get they are a small company, but other small companies have to do it and operate just fine. Seems too much like they are getting us to pay for all the publishing and risk, keeping all the profit for themselves and never putting any of it back into their own company or taking any of the risk themselves which I just don't like.

Like I said I get it for first time publishers, but this is someone whose made several games and has been around awhile. And yes I am a bit jaded and judgmental because I am in a heavily regulated industry. And I honestly believe everyone should have the same restrictions on them.


I would rather have companies use kickstarter and print enough than the alternative.

Try to hunt down key market, or palaces of Carrara. Those games demand was under estimated and are hard to get. Or you can have games be over printed and end up on tanga.

Kickstarter is lesser of two evils, imo
 
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Will Beckley
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JQTNguyen wrote:
I share some of the same sentiments, but part of that may be a little bit of bitterness that I missed out on the Coup: Reformation Kickstarter because I was out at the time and would really, really love to have Ultimate Coup.

I've bought the game twice over now at this point and would willingly buy a copy of Ultimate Coup at retail if I was able, but alas... One of the major things that gets me with Kickstarter campaign funded board games is when something that adds/changes gameplay is offered only as a Kickstarter exclusive and I think Ultimate Coup kind of fits into that category.


Funny, I wrote almost these exact words in January with regards to the original Coup KS. I picked up two copies of retail Coup because play with more than 6 was important to me, but I was pretty upset that there was no way for me to experience the "pro" variant of the game where each card has different art and can thus be tracked to aid in calling bluffs.

Of course, I went in for Ultimate Coup and I was happy to pay $30 for it, bringing me to $50 spent on Coup this year alone. Probably the best "$50 game" I've bought in years. Nonetheless, while I'm glad I'm on the inside this time around, I find the way such an interesting mode of play is hidden from the majority of consumers pretty galling. If nothing else, the additional art assets alone would be better paid for if more than the KS crowd could get them. More importantly, it just feels like a bad way to treat your future customers, punishing them for not having been aware in time to get the extra stuff (itself potentially a failure of marketing). Exactly as you say, it materially changes the gameplay, and thus it feels wrong that it should be a limited offer. KS exclusives should be cosmetic in nature, and worthwhile for diehard fans that want a nicer version. I have no problem with that.

JQTNguyen wrote:
Edit: Just a quick note to add that I don't feel like this campaign is unreasonable or gouge-y at all unlike some other Kickstarters that I've backed or pulled out of recently because it seemed not on the level. I really feel like Indie Boards and Cards is giving me a good value for my money and doing everything that they can to make sure that this is the case.


I agree as well. I only have Avalon, but I'll be going in for This with a copy of The Resistance, and I'll be glad to pay $34 for the whole package.

That said, both Coup and The Resistance have reached their threshold for me. If/when Indie comes back with more goodies, I hope I won't feel compelled to buy these games all over again for a third time. Having missed the original Coup KS I was glad to have the chance. Having only owned Avalon, I don't have a problem with re-buying the base game. But that's it. I want all future Coup and Resistance content to be compatible with what I've got now.

Edit: Removed an overly cranky paragraph complaining about the many ways Indie uses KS. Much of which was unfair given the limited number of their campaigns I've participated in. I'm still not wild about established companies using KS for every new product, but Indie successfully keeps these products in print and they do more with them in traditional retail, plus, they're hardly Queen Games in their use of KS. And this campaign is far better in terms of outreach and communication than Reformation was.
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Mark Turner
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I always weep a little inside when US BGGers complain at the cost of games.

Try living in England for a change. You have it so good.
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Jarrett Dunn
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alenen wrote:
mltdwn wrote:
My only problem (and I backed it myself) is the fact they are even using Kickstarter. They've published several games already, they've made profit on those game (or I would hope they do), sink the profit into the company and use that to publish it instead of asking us to pay the upfront costs for you. I get they are a small company, but other small companies have to do it and operate just fine. Seems too much like they are getting us to pay for all the publishing and risk, keeping all the profit for themselves and never putting any of it back into their own company or taking any of the risk themselves which I just don't like.

Like I said I get it for first time publishers, but this is someone whose made several games and has been around awhile. And yes I am a bit jaded and judgmental because I am in a heavily regulated industry. And I honestly believe everyone should have the same restrictions on them.


I would rather have companies use kickstarter and print enough than the alternative.

Try to hunt down key market, or palaces of Carrara. Those games demand was under estimated and are hard to get. Or you can have games be over printed and end up on tanga.

Kickstarter is lesser of two evils, imo


See that's the nice thing about operating like a normal business... Unless you are able to self finance then if you don't know the market you go bankrupt, old businesses ran by people who have no business operating leave the industry, new comers enter, and eventually we are left with generally the best. All one has to do is look at Game Salute, Valley Games, and the like to see how Kickstarter has let inept business men continue to operate and make the industry worse for it. In a normal business setting they would have been unable to operate long ago due to not having the personal funds to continue.

As for not enough games being printed, oh well. I came from an era where the only games you had access to was what the local store carried and there was no Amazon or the like. So I don't see it as a big deal. Especially when there are so many games out today that do the same thing. I mean I would love to have Space hulk but not at $200... That's ok I have other games similar enough to fill that void.
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Zaid
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The people who are defending the over-priced nature of this kick start are encouraging designers to continue to add expansions at a heaped up price.

Regardless of how great Resistance and these modules are (which we all know they are wonderful.) The price does not justify the product. This is basic economics, don't let your love and zeal for this game be your justified point for backing this product. It is not priced fairly, and easily Don Eskridge can make a profit at a much lower price point considering how successful his other products have been.

I am not backing this and The Resistance is one of my favorite games and most played one.

I refuse to back a product that is over-priced regardless of my love for it, but if they release The Resistance that includes these two expansions for around 20-25, I will buy it, because that is a fair price.

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Will Beckley
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Zaid wrote:
I refuse to back a product that is over-priced regardless of my love for it, but if they release The Resistance that includes these two expansions for around 20-25, I will buy it, because that is a fair price.


That set would cost $34, purchased from this KS. But it is worth noting that this price includes shipping as well. Assuming shipping costs to be $9 (if I were to order just The Resistance from CSI, my cheapest shipping would be $7.50, so that's within the margin of error), then they're already offering that $25 price to you. Assuming shipping costs on just the expansions to be that same $7.50, then the cost of this KS is a laughably reasonable $12.50.

Sure, you can get The Resistance shipped free on amazon Prime, or as part of a large order from other retailers. With a KS you understandably forgo that right in exchange for an early and guaranteed copy that may also have exclusive additional content. Only you can know what makes sense to you, and those free shipping opportunities will be available to you after general release if that's important to you. But $20 including shipping is hardly over-priced.

Also, Don Eskridge almost certainly had nothing to do with the pricing as he's not the publisher, just the designer.
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John
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MrMT wrote:
Try living in England for a change. You have it so good.

Agreed, I'd certainly back it if I lived in the US. I know it's not as simple as just converting from one currency to another but $20 seems pretty reasonable, that is approx £12. I'd probably back it at the international price of $28 too (~ £16.60) if I was certian that's all I'd pay but if was liable for VAT and the Royal Mail handling fee it would be around £28, well over twice the US price, so I'm tempted to wait for the retail version & miss the exclusives.
 
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silverbowen wrote:
$20 seems like a lot for this. As far as I can tell it mostly adds cards that let Resistance play like Avalon. Not sure the MSRP on the base, but it can't be more than the asking price here. It seems to be doing gangbusters, so obviously $20 isn't too much for lots of folks, but I don't get it.








by seems you actually mean IS. I love resistance but can't justify spending $20 for so little.


just wait for it to pop up on coolstuffinc or amazon and get it for cheaper than the people who kickstarted it. lol
 
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MSRP will probably be $20 which means 20€ in Finland. $28 converts to a little more than 20€, but combined with a few extra Kickstarter only playable cards and $19 base game price (as I don't own it), I think it's worth the cost ($28+$19=~35€). The base game is also sold for 20€ (or possible slightly less) in Finland.

@zabdiel: The project is EU Friendly. Games ship from Sweden so no extra VAT should be added.
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batanen wrote:
@zabdiel: The project is EU Friendly. Games ship from Sweden so no extra VAT should be added.

Excellent! Thanks.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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I don't think this is a particularly outstanding deal or anything but it's pretty ridiculous to argue that $20 shipped is grossly overpriced for a professionally produced boxed expansion with 85 cards plus tokens.



The actual price is $16 with $4 flat rate shipping. (no matter how many copies you buy)

This includes an upgrade kit for 1st edition owners, something that many other publishers have charged people for as an entirely separate product, so it's pretty clear that he's not out to fleece his customers.

I personally have no need for those but it speaks volumes about where the publisher is actually coming from.

Furthermore, if this follows Avalon's publication history the KS promos will likely show up in the GeekStore at a price of $5. So even if you wait and buy it discounted online at CSI for $11 you'd wind up paying the exact same price in the end to acquire everything included.
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