Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Permanent death? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jose Miguel Rodriguez Fernandez
Spain
Málaga
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmb
Hi,

Im thinking players havent any fears in his/hers adventures. Simply they success or not.

Already exists any rule (official or standar for second edition) for carry on permants deaths?

In this way is more funny, challenger and players will play with care and thinking anymore.

Thanks!

Wiskeim
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wiskeim wrote:


In this way is more funny, challenger and players will play with care and thinking anymore.



More challenging, yes. Funny, no - probably just annoying and frustrating. And I'm pretty sure players are already playing quite carefully and thoughtfully to make sure they don't die - I don't see how much more carefully they can play by the threat of being killed permanently.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrzej Sieradzki
Poland
Opole
flag msg tools
badge
We don't stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bleached_lizard wrote:
Wiskeim wrote:


In this way is more funny, challenger and players will play with care and thinking anymore.



More challenging, yes. Funny, no - probably just annoying and frustrating. And I'm pretty sure players are already playing quite carefully and thoughtfully to make sure they don't die - I don't see how much more carefully they can play by the threat of being killed permanently.


Hear, hear.
Since I mostly play with a group, personally I hate situation when one of the players is out and has to watch others having fun.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rafal Areinu
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This belongs to Variant subforum.

I've seen some people in Variant subforum proposing permanent death mechanics, but none of them was good.

Furthermore it's not funny, as it pretty much makes the game unplayable for heroes. There are multiple quests where the GOAL of overlord is to knock out heroes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jose Miguel Rodriguez Fernandez
Spain
Málaga
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmb
Nah, dont be catastrophics! (sorry if my english is bad in any moment im spanish )

It could to be nice a player death lost equipment, level, but he/she can returns again with another character.

Dont eliminate players, that is not funny, of course.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rafal Areinu
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And losing equipment and level is funny? This game has very tight power growth mechanic. If you remove players level and equipment during 2nd act then they will be dying every single turn.

Want to try it out?

Page 19 defines Epic Play rules:
Quote:
This optional rule is for players who wish to access high level Class, Shop
Item, and Overlord cards outside of a campaign setting. When using this
option, all players must agree upon a power level (listed below) after
choosing a quest. For rules on spending experience points, see “Spend
Experience Points” on page 20.
Basic Level: Follow normal setup.

Advanced Level: Each hero receives 3 experience points worth of Class
cards and 150 gold worth of Act I Shop Item cards (of their choice—
heroes may share gold). The overlord receives 4 experience points worth
of Overlord cards.

Expert Level: Each hero receives 6 experience points worth of Class cards
and 250 gold worth of Act I or Act II Shop Item cards (of their choice—
heroes may share gold). The overlord receives 8 experience points worth
of Overlord cards. The overlord uses his Act II Monster and Lieutenant
cards.


Try playing overlord with expert level bonuses(The overlord receives 8 experience points worth of Overlord cards. The overlord uses his Act II Monster and Lieutenant cards.) and heroes with Basic level(fresh characters with no exp or gold).

You will see how fun it will be for heroes. I will remind you that Ettin throws Blue and 2 Red dice and gets +2(master) or +1(minion) on surge. That can go up to 10 damage per attack from master. Heroes with gray die will be able to block max 3 out of that. Heroes will often die with 2-3 attacks, sometimes get killed with 1. No matter how careful you are 1 attack death is not fun.

Furthermore ettin in 2nd act gets black and gray defense die. That goes up to 7 shields. Heroes with starting weapons get blue and yellow or blue and red, or sometimes blue and green. Those weapons max out at 5-8 damage, including surges. I won't be calculating statistics here, but overall heroes won't be doing any damage a lot of time, and when they will it will be mostly 1 or 2 wounds.

And even when heroes will get "critical" hit, getting max dice and ettin 0 shields overlord will have very powerful overlord cards at hand to change that unlikely result.

And even if heroes will manage to kill some Ettin it will be back with reinforcements.

Oh, and Ettin is not most powerful monster heroes might face. Shadow dragon with its fiery breath might kill multiple heroes with single shot. Merroid will not only kill them fast, but also Immobilize if they by any chance stay alive. Even goblin archers would easily KO a hero or 2 with their numbers and their blue + yellow + yellow attack dice.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren Nakamura
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
flag msg tools
http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
badge
Darren@destructoid.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hero KOs come too easily for any sort of permanent character/equipment loss to be viable (barring major changes to the game systems). Every campaign would end after the first Act II quest.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johannes Benedikt
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This wouldn't work quite right.

But if you want to try it out, OL Player shouldn't be able to reinforce monsters and lose ALL his handcards whenever a monster dies, to balance this (although it would still favor the OL).

It just seems boring to get rid of all those mechanics.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No. Way too brutal and contrary to the mechanics of the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rafal Areinu
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think this is perfect "variant" for you: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1206953/contemplating-fluff-...

It adds fun and changes no mechanics. Suddenly knock out mechanics make amazing sense and make the game epic.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Burke
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
Part Owner, Gen Con Games Library
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Reading a few of these responses, may I point out that OP means "fun" rather than "funny?" It may or may not change some of the discussion, but I see a couple of replies that would be less blunt if the poster noticed this translation error.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jburke98 wrote:
Reading a few of these responses, may I point out that OP means "fun" rather than "funny?" It may or may not change some of the discussion, but I see a couple of replies that would be less blunt if the poster noticed this translation error.


I realised this from the start, but it doesn't change my opinion. It would be neither more fun, nor more funny.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Atari 2600
United States
California
flag msg tools
I started playing this game, and how I handle the deaths is that each hero token is a life. So each player has 4 chances to die.

On campaign mode, after each quest, if the heroes won, they automatically get one life back, if the OL wins, they have to roll a die.

1-3 they do not recover any life
4-6 they recover one life

So far, no one has died 4 times. But we just started.

They will have the option to come back with another hero from scratch later on if they die.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Markham
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's not bad mechanically, and consequences to being KO-ed seems to be something that many players crave bu-ut...death is just too big a deal. Losing a character permanently, even if replaced, is going to bum somebody out.

Rather than incorporating rules to see if heroes die, I think heroes should have to roll for serious injury. The chances of getting injured should increase each time the hero is knocked down in a single quest. There could be a table for it.

Some of the effects could be like, Cracked Skull: Hero suffers -1 to attribute tests. Injured Leg: Hero suffers -1 to speed.

I'm pretty sure other games have similar mechanics. The problem is, the game is supposedly balanced the way it is. If you're going to introduce a mechanic where heroes can get injured, then you need to introduce something offsetting in the heroes favor ...unless the heroes are just crushing it and the OL is way behind.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This game isn't about death or killing. This is a game about action efficiency. Killing a hero means you have set them back at least one, maybe two actions (if they stand up instead of get revived). On top of that, they will likely be at half health or worse, opening them up to more death. If you play this game to kill heroes, you're likely going to lose a lot (unless your heroes just suck). If treat death as what it is, a worse form of stun, then you realize there's no need to boost the penalties for death.

Focus less on killing and more on distracting them with monsters and you will win and they never need to die. Also - status effects. For the love of pete, status effects. Bleeding is probably the single most obnoxious status effect in the game for heroes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Flintham
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wiskeim wrote:
Hi,

Im thinking players havent any fears in his/hers adventures. Simply they success or not.

Already exists any rule (official or standar for second edition) for carry on permants deaths?

In this way is more funny, challenger and players will play with care and thinking anymore.

Thanks!

Wiskeim



Hi Wiskeim,

Why don't you try it out?

Then you could give us all an account of how it goes for you

It might work better with the new co-op rules?



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.