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Highway to the Reich (third edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Playability rss

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Jarkko Kotiranta
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I've been looking at a few monster games to sink my teeth into, and this is one of them. I've looked at the old threads about the game that mentions rules confusion and errata counters, but are those things still a problem or have they been dealt with?

What I mean is that assuming I order the game from DG direct, will I have a more "complete" game than what other folks have dealt with in the past?

I am interested in this campaign as well as Normandy, the scale seems just about right to my tastes, but I'm worried the problems with the game persist.

Thanks.
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Matt Irsik
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I've played The Battle For Normandy, Proud Monster Deluxe, Federation & Empire, and many more monster games, but I'm a bit on the fence on this one. The errata counters (many of which weren't that serious of an issue) and the latest rulebook do help, but that rulebook is dense. I'm not sure if it is how it is set up, lack of examples, etc., but you need to run through it several times. I keep finding (or blundering into) rules in the strangest places

The game has beautiful components, is at an interesting scale, and has several scenarios that are ideal for learning the system and/or for shorter games before tackling the huge campaign game. I've played the older version and the new one looks to be a marked improvement, but as you can see from my previous post on this forum I'm not sure if I'm playing things right or where certain rules are. Also, I'm not sure how many people have actually played this game, despite how many copies have been sold. I've looked all over the place for various answers on the rules and there simply is no mention of many of the things I have questions about. That means one of two things; A) the game is so good and well thought out that there aren't any questions, or B) few people have played it, so they have no idea what you're talking about and can't help out. At this point I'm leaning towards B.
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Tom Stearns
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I have only played the original. However as you can see by my micro badge I like monster games and have played many of them, mostly solo. IMHO any monster game is going to have issues. Simply by being huge and detailed there is going to be errata and dense rules. I have found that setting the game up and playing while I go through the rules helps me to learn the game. I don't read the rulebook front to back. Would never remember it all anyway. I am willing to accept counter and rule flaws as long as the base system works. TLD, TBfN, HttR, WaRII all have their flaws, but the base systems are so good it doesn't matter. I still enjoy the games and have no regrets about the money and time invested.

I want HttRII also but haven't been able to get it added to my collection yet.
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David Gray
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I have both versions of HttR. I'm not sure I'm glad I bought the second. The first may have some functional problems but the rules for the second version are extremely hard to penetrate.

gohrns wrote:
I have only played the original. However as you can see by my micro badge I like monster games and have played many of them, mostly solo. IMHO any monster game is going to have issues. Simply by being huge and detailed there is going to be errata and dense rules. I have found that setting the game up and playing while I go through the rules helps me to learn the game. I don't read the rulebook front to back. Would never remember it all anyway. I am willing to accept counter and rule flaws as long as the base system works. TLD, TBfN, HttR, WaRII all have their flaws, but the base systems are so good it doesn't matter. I still enjoy the games and have no regrets about the money and time invested.

I want HttRII also but haven't been able to get it added to my collection yet.
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Greg Barker
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This will probably be my next purchase despite all the errata. Like the conflict and will be playing this solitare. Not a whole lot to read here on the geek. Check over at consimworld.
 
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Jarkko Kotiranta
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Regarding rules density, I'm guessing we're talking ASL -level rules here. That's ok, I play ASL

I was more bothered by the possibility of missing counters or having errors in the OOB. I'd like my monsters to be as accurate as possible, to maintain a sense of verisimilitude during play. I haven't researched every OOB exhaustively in this campaign or even Normandy (yet), but I'd like to know I'm pushing the cardboard equivalent of a real army around. I'm sure folks would agree on this.

I read some of the rules (Q&A version from Consimworld) and I liked at least some of what I saw, like the part about being able to use AT assets against troops in buildings, as they really did back then (pounding away with tank cannons on the poor british paratroopers in buildings). Small details like these allow me to get more involved in the game, the same as ASL.
 
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David Gray
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bpmasher wrote:
Regarding rules density, I'm guessing we're talking ASL -level rules here. That's ok, I play ASL

I was more bothered by the possibility of missing counters or having errors in the OOB. I'd like my monsters to be as accurate as possible, to maintain a sense of verisimilitude during play. I haven't researched every OOB exhaustively in this campaign or even Normandy (yet), but I'd like to know I'm pushing the cardboard equivalent of a real army around. I'm sure folks would agree on this.

I read some of the rules (Q&A version from Consimworld) and I liked at least some of what I saw, like the part about being able to use AT assets against troops in buildings, as they really did back then (pounding away with tank cannons on the poor british paratroopers in buildings). Small details like these allow me to get more involved in the game, the same as ASL.


I find the ASL rules considerably more clear myself.
 
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Matt Irsik
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Actually for a monster game the counter issues and errata aren't that bad and you can get the latest rulebook with the errata built in over in the HTTR 2 folder at CSW. Most of the errata is defilade markings on the wrong side and on some of the counters I had to really stare at them for awhile to see what changed!

The main problem is the rulebook. I'm no stranger to complexity, having played Attack Vector Tactical, Bloody April, Triumph of Chaos, etc., but the rules here have a large number of problems. For example, what is Response Movement and are there any restrictions to it? Other than in the SOP and a brief mention of it in the Movement rules there's not much on it, but it should be a major part of each turn. Likewise with when do the airborne troops land? Because of the scenario starting turn info I was able to learn that it's in the Conditional Movement Phase as far as I can tell. How far can they move once they land? Again, it's a short sentence in the middle of the airborne operations rules. You gloss over it and you may never find it again. There's a ton of one time effects and important rules spread all over the place.

Now I'm having fun with the game right now as I think it does a good job of combat at this scale, but I have no idea if I'm playing things right, making a mess of the rules, etc. The components are great, it's naturally a great subject for gamers, and you get to push a LOT of counters in what feels like a hundred small unit actions happening at once. But that rulebook needs to be reworked...
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Jarkko Kotiranta
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mirsik wrote:
Actually for a monster game the counter issues and errata aren't that bad and you can get the latest rulebook with the errata built in over in the HTTR 2 folder at CSW. Most of the errata is defilade markings on the wrong side and on some of the counters I had to really stare at them for awhile to see what changed!

The main problem is the rulebook. I'm no stranger to complexity, having played Attack Vector Tactical, Bloody April, Triumph of Chaos, etc., but the rules here have a large number of problems. For example, what is Response Movement and are there any restrictions to it? Other than in the SOP and a brief mention of it in the Movement rules there's not much on it, but it should be a major part of each turn. Likewise with when do the airborne troops land? Because of the scenario starting turn info I was able to learn that it's in the Conditional Movement Phase as far as I can tell. How far can they move once they land? Again, it's a short sentence in the middle of the airborne operations rules. You gloss over it and you may never find it again. There's a ton of one time effects and important rules spread all over the place.

Now I'm having fun with the game right now as I think it does a good job of combat at this scale, but I have no idea if I'm playing things right, making a mess of the rules, etc. The components are great, it's naturally a great subject for gamers, and you get to push a LOT of counters in what feels like a hundred small unit actions happening at once. But that rulebook needs to be reworked...


Thanks for clarifying. I bought Hurtgen: Hell's Forest designed by Youst, so I guess I'll soon see how I grok his style of writing and rules organization. It seems there is a good game hiding amongst the confusing rules organization, so I might still get this game too.
 
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