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Subject: Lab Romance: discuss the temporary templates and how to improve it! rss

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Lance Codarin
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hi all! i created this topic in order to discuss this last stretch goal reached and link it to the discussion on the Kickstarter page!

So far the designer thought of this:
. "Romeo": If the player to your right dies, you also die and lose the number of points shown on your card. If the player to your right lives (and you also live), double your points!
2. "Juliet": (Same as "Romeo" except "...player to your left...")
3. "Scorned Lover": If any player lives (besides you), lose all your points this round. If all players die (besides you), earn 2 points per player who died.
4. "Sacrificial Love": Even if you die, earn 2 points per other player who lives. If any player dies, you earn 0 points this round.
5. "Team Leader": Earn 1 bonus point for every other player who lives. Lose 1 point for ever other player who dies. You cannot end up with more than 0 if you die, or less than 0 if you live.
6. "Saboteur": Earn 1 bonus point for every other player who dies. Lose 1 point for every other player who lives. You cannot end up with more than 0 if you die, or less than 0 if you live.


people on KS suggested to modify them and he is considering every opinion

My take on the roles are as follows (all points could be changed for balance reasons):

Romeo: he wants juliet to LIVE!
- if Juliet dies LOSE 2 points
- if Juliet lives you GET 1/2/3 Points (depending on the amount chosen for juliet

Juliet: she wants romeo to LIVE!
- if romeo DIES she also dies even if she correctly guessed the antidote and gets zero points
- if romeo LIVES gain 3/4/5 points (depending on what amount was decided for romeo)

The Mad scientist:You want EVERY OTHER PLAYER to DIE!
- if you succeed you EARN 4 points for every dead player
- if you LIVE but can't kill everyone you GET 2 point this round
- If you die you GET 0 points this round!

The Altruist Researcher (tentative name): he wants to contain the toxin!
- at the end of the game count how many X are in your workstation (placebo cards don't count):
- If you live you EARN 1 point for each X you have (placebo excluded)
- in any other case you don't EARN additional points

Drug Addict (tentative name): he wants to acquire and sell the Toxin!
- at the end of the game count how many X are in your workstation (placebo cards don't count):
- if you have the majority and you live gain 4 bonus points
- if you have all the x and you live gain 10 bonus points
- in any other case you DON'T GET point this turn

Lead researcher:you want the OTHER players to live (including yourself)!
- if you live you EARN 1 point for EVERY OTHER player ALIVE
- in any other case you LOSE 2 points

Conflicted Lover: he wants either the Mad scientist or The Lead Researcher to win
- if you LIVE and the lead researcher WINS you GET 5 points
- if you DIE and the MAD scientist WINS you GET the same points as him +3
- if both of them die you LOSE 3 Points
- in any other case you GET 0 points this round
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Thierry Soucie
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As written in the Kickstarter comments section, here are mine:

Husband: At game’s end: If both you and Juliet have the antidote, score an extra 2 points. If Juliet doesn’t have the antidote and you do, you may forfeit your antidote to score 3 points.

Wife: At game’s end: If both you and Romeo have the antidote, score an extra 2 points. If Romeo doesn’t have the antidote and you do, you may give your antidote to Romeo. Both you and Romeo score half the antidote +4 (rounded up).

Mad scientist: At game’s end: Score 1 point for every player that does not have the antidote. Lose 2 points if you do not have it yourself.

Lead researcher: At game’s end: Score 1 point for every player that does not have the antidote. Lose 2 points if you do not have it yourself.

Smuggler: At game’s end: Score 2 points for every different type of formula on your workstation. If you have the antidote, do not score the points of the antidote; if you do not have the antidote, lose 6 points.

Obsessive Compulsive: At game’s end: Determine the formula you have the most cards of on your workstation and score 1 point for each card of that formula. If you do not have the antidote, lose 3 points.

Junkie: At game’s end: Score 3 points for every syringe on your workstation. If you do not have the antidote, lose 3 points.

Terrorist: At game’s end: Score 2 points for every “X” card on your workstation. If you do not have the antidote, lose 4 points.

Thief: At game’s end: Before revealing final cards, trade yours with another player. If you picked the antidote, score 3 extra points. If you gave the antidote, score 2 points.

Tech guy: After all final cards have been revealed but not the antidote, you may exchange your final card with any of the ones on your workbench for -1 point. If you do not exchange and you have the antidote, score an extra 3 points.

Sweet tooth: At game’s end: Score 2 extra points for every placebo on your workbench. If you do not have the antidote, lose 2 points.

Master: At game’s end: If you and the apprentice have the antidote, you score the total of both cards. If the apprentice has the antidote and you do not, exchange cards with the apprentice. If both you and the apprentice do not have the antidote, lose the total on both cards.

Apprentice: At game’s end: If you and the master have the antidote, you score the total of both cards. If the master has the antidote and you do not, exchange cards with the master. If both you and the master do not have the antidote, lose the total on both cards.

---

Flirt: At game’s end: Before revealing final cards, trade yours with another player. If you picked the antidote, score 3 extra points. If you gave the antidote, score 2 points.

Cheater: After all final cards have been revealed but not the antidote, you may exchange your final card with any of the ones on your workbench for -1 point. If you do not exchange and you have the antidote, score an extra 3 points.

Romeo: At game’s end: If both you and Juliet have the antidote, score an extra 2 points. If Juliet doesn’t have the antidote and you do, you may forfeit your antidote to score 3 points.

Juliet: At game’s end: If both you and Romeo have the antidote, score an extra 2 points. If Romeo doesn’t have the antidote and you do, you may give your antidote to Romeo. Both you and Romeo score half the antidote +4 (rounded up).

Samson: At game’s end: Make 1 point for every person who has the antidote. You always survive, even if you do not have the antidote (do not lose or gain points according to your last card in that situation), unless Delilah has the antidote. In this case, you are betrayed and die under normal scoring conditions.

Delilah: At game’s end: If you have the antidote, add the number of points on Samson’s last card to your score (whether it is the antidote or not).

Tristan: At game’s end: You survive only if Iseult has the antidote, in which case, you score the total of both your final cards. If you have the antidote but Iseult doesn’t, you lose the total of both your final cards.

Iseult: At game’s end: If you have the antidote, score the total of yours and Tristan’s final cards. If you do not have the antidote but Tristan does, you lose the total of both your final cards.

King Mark: At game’s end: If you have the antidote and Iseult does not, you can share yours with Iseult. In this case, score points according to Iseult’s card as if you were Tristan.

Iseult of the White Hands: At game’s end: If both you and Iseult have the antidote, you may forfeit your antidote to kill Iseult and score 4 points. In this case, Iseult is not considered as having the antidote.
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Kenneth Stuart
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Response from the OP:

I disagree with the Romeo and Juliet theme. Considering the existing "modern science" theme of the game, an ancient play is not the most appropriate. I do like the role abilities, though, so just change the names of the cards.

Further along those lines, the only other role here that matches the theme of "Lab Romance" is the conflicted lover. None of the other names come anywhere close to being romantic. Either the name of this expansion needs to change or the card titles need to change.

Would Romeo and Juliet know each other? If not, their roles are horrible since it's all a matter of luck. If they know each other they can at least try to help each other.

Mad Scientist +3 points is pretty good considering how difficult it will be to pull off, but the 0 points for not killing everyone is tough. Perhaps -1 per every 2 other survivors instead. Can you imagine how difficult it will be to ensure 6 other players die?

Some clarifications will be necessary on the +/- point conditions, but that can come down the road.
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Lance Codarin
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on kickstarter i already modified them now i will modify here too!
yes i agree that the mad scientist needs a tweak and you will see soon how i did tweak it!
the conflicted lover was a start because in order to achieve total annihilation the mad scientist needs to cooperate with him! and you can see that the conflicted was tweaked in the wording a bit

romeo and juliet don't know each other but maybe we can change them somehow... i don't think they are Out of place since they are the LOVERS!

the toxin engineer and the terrorist need just a rename but i wanted to implement a mechanic that works towards the collection of sets of X
i tried with drug addict and altruist researcher

i think the lead researcher fits the lab romance because he loves others and tries to make them LIVE!


@thierry on kickstarter i incorporated some of your suggestions!
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Kenneth Stuart
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Darklaw90 wrote:

romeo and juliet don't know each other but maybe we can change them somehow... i don't think they are Out of place since they are the LOVERS!

They aren't scientific lovers. They aren't science lovers. They aren't even scientists.
 
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Thierry Soucie
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We could try to incorporate the Curries somehow, then.
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Dennis Hoyle
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wizcreations wrote:
Darklaw90 wrote:

romeo and juliet don't know each other but maybe we can change them somehow... i don't think they are Out of place since they are the LOVERS!

They aren't scientific lovers. They aren't science lovers. They aren't even scientists.


True! The naming of Romeo and Juliet more comes from the thought that if your lover dies, you also die. Romeo and Juliet exemplify this type of intense love relationship.
 
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Dennis Hoyle
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All, thanks for your patience as we work through some of your suggestions. There are a LOT! Some things to think about - Lab Romance cards will be secret, so it would be very difficult to know who is "Identity Y" before the end of the game. Also, does it make thematic sense for a player to earn points above 0 even if they die?

Finally, consider how the game text can fit the following format:

Objective: Player's goal (ie. drink the antidote)
If successful: Bonus for accomplishing the goal
If unsuccessful: Loss for not accomplishing the goal

Here is an example:


Romeo:

Objective: Both you AND the player on your right drink the antidote.
If Successful: You earn the sum of the points on your final card and the final card of the player to your right.
If Unsuccessful: You die (either from the toxin or from a broken heart).
 
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Thierry Soucie
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I think it can make sense if they "go down in history", like the mad scientist killing lots of people or the lead researcher saving his group. Probably the others shouldn't, unless, again, they have some kind of recognition even in death.

Well, here's what I could do with some in the format you asked:

Husband
Objective: Both you and your wife have to drink the antidote.
Success: Score both card points.
Failure: Lose both card points.

Wife
Objective: Both you and your husband have to drink the antidote.
Success: Score both card points.
Failure: Lose both card points.

Master
Objective: The apprentice must have the antidote.
Success: Score the points on the apprentice's card.
Failure: Lose the points on the apprentice's card.

Apprentice
Objective: The master must have the antidote.
Success: Score the points on the master's card.
Failure: Lose the points on the master's card.

Mad scientist
Objective: Have people not drink the antidote.
Success: Make 2 points for every person that does not drink the antidote.
Failure: Lose 1 point for every person that drinks the antidote.

Lead researcher
Objective: Have people drink the antidote.
Success: Make 2 points for every person that drinks the antidote.
Failure: Lose 1 point for every person that does not drink the antidote.

Terrorist
Objective: Drink the antidote and keep the toxins ("X" cards).
Success: Score 2 points for every toxin on you workbench.
Failure: Lose 1 point for every toxin on your workbench.

Smuggler
Objective: Drink the antidote and smuggle the formulas.
Success: Score 2 points for every different type of formula on your workbench.
Failure: Lose 1 point for every different type of formual on your workbench.

Some are harder to achieve, especially not knowing who has which character, and thus the reward is greater. The husband and wife score "double" because both need to survive, while the master and apprentice only steal each others card at the end, so they only care about one card, thus one single scoring. Finding out who is who can be done through questionning (I guess some secrecy rules would need to be put out, such as "you cannot outright state which character you are") and for some, it would be difficult to know if you had the husband or the master for example.
 
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Kenneth Stuart
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I just want to point out, I really like the ideas here, but I would like to see this stick to the theme of the game and the expansion: Science-related + romance. I just don't enjoy seeing games abandon their theme for the sake of mechanics. Mechanics and theme should mesh together!

That being said, Husband and Wife are good replacement names for Romeo and Juliet.

Considering several of the mechanics and options presented for these cards, perhaps a better name for the expansion would be Partnership or Conspiracy, or something along those lines.
 
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Dennis Hoyle
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Liking the concept of the lead researcher and mad scientist especially. The ones where you are paired with a different player (Husband/wife/apprentice/master) will be very difficult since you will not know who that player is that you are trying to work with and some games may only have one or the other. Several others of these are great concepts as well, but may not really fit with the Lab Romance expansion. The terrorist in particular is a realistic card that could show up at some point. Thanks for the great suggestions!
 
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Thierry Soucie
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Here are some more love-themed characters:

The STD Infected
Objective: Drink the antidote with a value of 4 or more.
Success: You survive.
Failure: You die.

The Immuno-deficient
Objective: Drink the antidote with a value of 3 or less.
Success: You survive.
Failure: You die.

The Secret Lover
Objective: The person to your left drinks the antidote.
Success: Score the same points as the player to your left.
Failure: Lose the same points as the player to your left.

The Heart-Broken
Objective: The person to your right does not drink the antidote.
Success: Score the amount of points on the player to your right’s card.
Failure: Lose the amount of points on the player to your right’s card.

The Friend-Zoned
Objective: Survive with at least 2 other people.
Success: Score an additional point for every pair of other people who drank the antidote (rounded down).
Failure: Score as usual.

The Jealous
Objective: Survive with 1 person or less.
Success: Score an additional point for every pair of other people who did not drink the antidote (rounded down).
Failure: Score as usual.
 
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Thierry Soucie
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I guess some flavour text on some of the cards could be interesting (and also explain some of the objectives).

Like the STD-infected: "Blast it! As if one infection wasn't enough!"

With a system already battling infectious diseases, you need an especially strong dose of the vaccine if you wish to make it out alive.


Or the Immuno-deficient: "This was school immunization all over again... Get it or get it worse!"

With your weak immune system, injecting you with too strong a dose of this live-vaccine may result in your death.


I think it would add a bit to the role, making them more "realistic" and more fun.
 
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Lance Codarin
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nice idea on the STD even if there isn't much skill involved just luck of the draw could be reworked though!

here my additions and reworks trying to fit the "lab romance" theme

Assistant in love (x2):
Objective: be alive with the person to your left/right
Success: you and the other player are alive in the end
Failure: you or the player dies


Basically a reworked and simplified romeo and juliet

Drug Addicted x2:
two identical roles in conflict with each other (they "love" drugs)
Objective: they want to collect the majority of the X cards
Success: you are alive and have the majority
Failure: you die or don't have the majority


I really want to give the x cards more meat in the game play hence why i keep this kind of collect sets... of course final decision will be of dennis and

Vindictive/Vengeful Assistant:
Objective: kill the mad scientist
Success: survive and succeed in your mission
Failure: any other case


thematically he was the assistant of the mad scientist but was rejected by him so now wants revenge on him. doesn't care about others

Guilty Lover:
rename for the conflicted lover - he acts as i said before and he needs to balance is love for the mad scientist and his duty
GETS MORE POINTS IF HE HELPS THE MAD SCIENTIST
 
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Dennis Hoyle
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Hi all, we are getting close to finalizing the decisions on the Lab Romance cards. Please keep in mind there are only 8 cards in the expansion so we have only been able to choose a couple of the ideas you've suggested. Every idea has been considered, however, and it has been very helpful to hear all of your feedback! You will see a glimpse of the artwork in the next KS update and I'll list the included cards here when they are ready!
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