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Subject: wargames without stacking rss

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Jim Bourke
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I'm studying the game design of wargames and would like to see rule sets for wargames without stacking.

Any good examples come to mind?

Jim
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Jim Bourke
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I just found this: Hex-and-counter wargames with no stacking.

Maybe that is all I need.

Jim
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Lance Runolfsson
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I hate stacking and function markers.
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Robert Wesley
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Re: wargames without stacking or hatred
LanceRunolfsson wrote:
I hate stacking and function markers.
I 'state' "hacking" and 'munction farkers'! surprise
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JE SUIS VENU. J'AI VU. JE SUIS PARTI.
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A wargame without stacking isn't a wargame.

Somebody had to say it.
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Robert Wesley
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lucasbrooks wrote:
A wargame without stacking isn't a wargame.

Somebody had to say it.
Yes, since within this: Feudal; then, you are to use "harsh language" in 'lieu' for "combat resultsing"-'noisily effects', to wit:
sauron
robot~"kneel before YOUR 'betters' Knave Squire!"
wow~"HALP! Come "C" the 'violence' inherent within the 'system'!"
zombie~"it's ONLY a 'War Game'!"
ninja~"shhh!"
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Ryan Powers
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When you say stacking what exactly do you mean.

Multiple units are pretty clearly a stack.

Is a unit + a status marker a stack

How about a unit + a terrain feature represented by a counter (think airbases in OCS)

How about games where there is generally enough space for more than one unit/counter/whatever in a space, but a few are tight and tend to get piled up? (this one would generally apply to area movement games, but I'
ve seen games with over sized hexes it could apply to)
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Mitchell Land
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Stacking is a function of frontage. A wargame without stacking is either missing something or the frontage is otherwise accounted for. In any case, I believe Men of Iron Series has no stacking.
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Mike Hoyt

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Stacking is a function of the relative size of the units vs the size of the hex.

When those are out of balance in the direction of relatively small units (e.g platoons) vs relatively large hexes (say 5000 meters) you get big stacks of units.

For me, big stacks of units are no fun. And I tend to think the Designer got the relative scale wrong. If you need tweezers to play, I'd say that's a red flag that the scales are wrong
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Judd Vance
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James Lowry
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Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
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Jim Bourke
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keethrax wrote:
When you say stacking what exactly do you mean.


I'm looking for hex and counter wargames with only one unit counter allowed in a hex. Status markers in a hex are ok in addition to a unit.

Jim
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Karan R
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Unconditional Surrender! World War 2 in Europe too I believe
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Cracky McCracken
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JT there are quite a few naval sims such as Serpents of the Seas or Sci-Fi sims such as Klingon Armada that only have one ship per hex.

Star Fleet Universe games still use book keeping so the board stays fairly clean. Now the flying Colors series uses counters instead of book keeping so the board turns into a disaster.
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Andrew MacLeod
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And when, exactly, are we playing Churchill again?
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The Flowers of the Forest.

Amateurs to Arms!....most of the time!

Wooden Ships & Iron Men.

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Andrew MacLeod
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And when, exactly, are we playing Churchill again?
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Needless to say, any and all block wargames.
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J.L. Robert
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amacleod wrote:
Needless to say, any and all block wargames.


Au contraire! Most of Columbia's wargames have (minimal) stacking.
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Wendell
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nukeu666 wrote:


Yep; this could have one land army, one air unit, one warship, and one convoy in a hex, max (in a port obviously).

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Pelle Nilsson
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J.L.Robert wrote:
amacleod wrote:
Needless to say, any and all block wargames.


Au contraire! Most of Columbia's wargames have (minimal) stacking.


Yes, they stack horizontally rather than vertically, but they are still in stacks, and the blocks still obscure each other like counters in a cardboard stack.
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Pelle Nilsson
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blockhead wrote:
Stacking is a function of the relative size of the units vs the size of the hex.

When those are out of balance in the direction of relatively small units (e.g platoons) vs relatively large hexes (say 5000 meters) you get big stacks of units.

For me, big stacks of units are no fun. And I tend to think the Designer got the relative scale wrong. If you need tweezers to play, I'd say that's a red flag that the scales are wrong


Unfortunately reality isn't always on the side of convenient rules, and for some periods if you want a tactical game there is going to be either stacks or a map that has way more hexes (ie bigger map) than is practical.

Even on a higher scale, trying to avoid stacking can become very difficult anyway. At least in many modern battles the attackers often outnumber the defenders at least 3:1 in some small areas. You can try to work around that by having the attackers move in say battalion counters, with the defenders having company counters, but then how do you treat situations when the defenders want gather forces at some point? If you really do not want any stacking you would have to replace the defending counters to make them battalions, and not sure if that is such a big win compared to just allowing them to stack.

Anyway in my experience, trying to come up with good scenarios/themes for digital wargames so that they can be stack-less (because I never found a good stack GUI that was fun to use; looking at units in stacks is far worse on a screen than on a physical board) I found it much more difficult to get a good balance of map vs unit scale than I had expected.
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Aaron Yoder
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La Bataille is pretty particular about what can be in a hex. It isn't a "no stacking" rule, but it usually amounts to the same thing. And they usually supply Regiment and Battalion counters so you can break apart and re-combine the units so you don't have to stack things in a hex.

You COULD put multiple units into a hex, but the only unit that will matter at that point is the one on top. I'd consider that technically stacking, but at the same time kind of not.

Skirmishers also get to basically ignore stacking, so there's that, too.

I also believe the Musket & Pike series from GMT forbids stacking, with the notable exception of muskets & cavalry.
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oystein eker
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/6704/stacking-no-thank...
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Michael Lucey
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Area / impulse games such as Breakout: Normandy do not have stacking requirements. You can for convenience but they cannot hide units from your opponent.
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David Morneau
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jtbourke wrote:
keethrax wrote:
When you say stacking what exactly do you mean.


I'm looking for hex and counter wargames with only one unit counter allowed in a hex. Status markers in a hex are ok in addition to a unit.

Jim


Great Battles of History
Musket & Pike Battle Series

These are almost completely without stacking. In GBoH the Roman legions can stack two units to a hex. In MPBS the muskets and cavalry can stack as noted above, also units can stack with artillery.

Both series can still generate stacks of counters by the time you get all of the status markers on after a battle.
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