Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
42 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Works in Progress

Subject: Superhuman: Rise to Power, A Superhero Deck-builder Hybrid rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Hello,

I am new to Board Game Geek. I registered a while back but haven't used the site much, except to read posts, reviews, etc.

That being said, as a game designer, I would love a bit of feedback on our game, Superhuman : Rise to Power. This is my first game to either design or publish, although I have been an avid gamer for a couple decades now.

Thematically, it is a super-heroes vs super-villains epic battle between good and evil in an urban environment.

Mechanically, it is a sort of hybrid between a tactical miniature game and a ccg style game that plays like a table-top Grand Theft Auto meets Heroclix and MTG, which is heavy on use of a personalized deck of super powers representing your own customized or pre-made character.

I know this isn't much to go off of, but if anyone out there wants to take a look at our links to our website at

www.thoughttankgames.com

and the images on our facebook and can give some feedback, I'd appreciate it.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Thought-Tank-Games-LLC/510939...

We are trying to get ready for kickstarter, and are completely new at this, so any guidance, suggestions, or feedback moving forward are welcome.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is it actually a deckbuilder, or a game where you put a deck together before you play?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
I suppose you could categorize it more as a game where you put a deck together prior to play, as opposed to a pure deck-builder, but it doesn't have the randomness of a CCG.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Doctor Prometheus wrote:
I suppose you could categorize it more as a game where you put a deck together prior to play, as opposed to a pure deck-builder, but it doesn't have the randomness of a CCG.


That's fine.
So it's more like (at least the base set of) a Living Card Game then.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Here are some sample power cards for Superhuman: Rise to Power, from the four power origins, below:
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Exactly. blush I should get the game lingo down a bit more. Anyway, the LCG term fits much better, especially given the potential for us to keep churning out new sets of cards. The potential for superhuman power cards seems pretty vast...I want to be able to start the game off with enough power cards for people to have a huge variety of powers to choose from.

I'm thinking of starting the game with about 80 powers for our Starter Game, but have another 40 or so ready to go if we can exceed our goal in kickstarter. we currently have eight pre-made characters with decks of 40 cards featuring ten powers each, and if players don't want to customize (or don't have time to) they can easily just play the game without worrying about building their own decks.

How many cards do you think an LCG should start with to give it a high replay value out of the gates?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I honestly don't know. I've only played bits and pieces. I played a bit of the City of Heroes CCG years ago, but never owned any of it (just played with decks that Jaime had put together).

BTW, be careful to not actually brand it as an LCG,because that's a trademarked term.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate K
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Doctor Prometheus wrote:

How many cards do you think an LCG should start with to give it a high replay value out of the gates?


Depends on a lot of factors--number of players, deck size, maximum number of copies of a card that can be included in a deck, other deck restrictions such as faction limitations, etc.

Generally, you're going to want three playable decks per player in the initial release. So if it's intended as a two-player game, you'll want to give the players enough unique cards to make six balanced decks. There can be overlapping cards between the decks--for example faction-neutral cards--but you'll want to give a variety of deck types to try.

Oh, and "LCG" or "Living Card Game" is trademarked by Fantasy Flight Games, but you can use generic terms like Expandable Card Game or Customizable Card Game.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Thanks for the advice. I think the Customizable Card Game moniker is a good suggestion for a description. I think we should be able to have a variety of custom deck builds based on the custom deck building rules, which allow for multi-faction overlapping. Our basic factions,to try to cover major. character archetypes or origins, are mutant, paranormal, inspired,and gear head.

Inspired deals with skilled humans like batman, gear head deal with high tech mechanized types like iron man or robo cop, paranormal deals with mystic and psychic powers, and mutants deal with super humans whose powers are derived from inhuman DNA, whether due to accidents or alien nature.

Based on what you said,I figure we would release our starter set with two premade decks for each origin. As far as customizing goes, you could hypothetically build a cyborg ninja type by mixing cards from a couple of the gear head and inspired decks, or make a psychic alien by blending power cards from paranormal and mutants.

I added a rule that limits the highest level cards from multi origin decks, similar to what DND did in second edition with multi class, since each origin has its own strengths and weaknesses. I'm hoping that will be enough to give the game some replay value.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Thanks for the legal advice on terminology. I definitely don't want to step on anyone's toes with copyrighted language.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Ferguson
msg tools
designer
mbmb
It looks really good. I think everyone here has given you great advice. I would also suggest letting everyone see your kickstarter page before going live as well. That way we can catch any little thing beforehand that may trip you up.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
That sounds great! I am just wrapping up the details, so I will post it here in the next couple of days. I appreciate the feedback.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Here's a rough draft of our Kickstarter video that I put together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ORf44xwsNQ

What should I add to the video, if anything? I've seen videos that focus entirely on the game, and videos that are all splashly and entertaining. What is the best route?

I currently want to add an overview of the components, like the cards and the game board, but don't know how much of that I need to put into the video, given that I will be explaining it in the story section of the kickstarter page. Should I embed them into the video, or add an overview of the gameplay afterwards? What else should I have in the video to make it a kickstarter success?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
In addition to the video that I posted, I also have an image of the game (a prototype printed through The Game Crafter) Just thought I'd share.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Hello,

Here's a preview link to our Kickstarter page. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. We really want our first Kickstarter campaign to work out so we can share our game to anyone interested, but as noobs we are flying blind. Help us, BBG Forums! You are our only hope!

http://tinyurl.com/patklyx
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some thoughts:

Your video looks fairly cool, but tells me so close to nothing that it felt like a waste of time to watch. Show us how the game plays, that's what a promo video is good for.

For sixty bucks, a hard board seems like it should be an already set thing, not a stretch goal.

Only $15 for international shipping? Unless you have transcontinental teleportation powers yourselves, I'd be really worried about losing a lot of money that way. Greater Than Games charge $40 and are still losing money on that deal.

On the game side, I'm dubious about the dice rolling. Is it really necessary?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Thanks for the feedback. This is the first game i've tried to publish, so I am still working out the kinks.

For the video: I will add footage of gameplay.

The Board: I will see if we can't find a low cost hard board option for the size we are looking for.

The dice: The game has a similar feel mechanically to Arkham Horror in terms of the dice interaction with cards, which everyone might not be a fan of, but all who have played have enjoyed the dice/card interaction so far, as far as I know, as it has never been an issue when getting feedback during the playtests. Even strangers at playtests seem to enjoy the dice rolling. Perhaps the face to face thing makes people pull punches?

Shipping: I checked shipping costs, and we were way off, so thanks for pointing that out.

It is nice to get honest feedback. I truly appreciate it.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
With Arkham Horror, you've got all your stuff laid out in front of you. With this, I'm guessing you have a hidden hand of cards. Managing dice and cards at the same time is annoying. That's my issue.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Each player has a limited card hand of about four-seven cards and up to about four-seven cards in front of them face up in play that affect their dice rolls. It sort of plays out like a blend of Magic and Arkham Horror.

The way dice and card powers interact is similar to the way one might cast a spell in Dungeons and Dragons or Pathfinder. In DnD or Pathfinder, the spell is detailed on a character sheet, in a book, or on a spell card. The spell will typically also require the roll of dice.

Similarly, all of the powers in this game are represented in your deck, either by being an unseen ace in your hand (like a smoke bomb or knife hidden in your utility belt that you can use to distract or wound your enemy instantly) or a power everyone knows you have, like Super Strength or Martial Arts Training, which is laid out in front of you. The cards in hand allow you to strategically bluff in combat situations, which can keep your arch enemies off guard as you try to accomplish heroic deeds, diabolical schemes, or simply defeat your enemy in combat.

Your success with some power cards (typically just attack powers) is dependent upon your stats, while other cards (over 2/3rds of the cards in the game) are played without the use of a roll. Some cards might modify an existing roll in some cases. The character you play has stats (sort of like in Arkham Horror)that tell you how many dice you roll, and thus how effective you are with a given power. The idea is that a physical weakling that is a psychic can't hit as hard with some brutish pile-driver attack power due to his low Physical Power statistic, but might be very effective at a telekinesis power attack due to his higher Mental Power statistic. You may custom build a character to use any powers in the game, after determining your own statistics through a custom character build.

I've found that everyone we've had playtest the game with so far enjoys the mechanic, and when asked, would not change it. It probably isn't for everyone. My gaming group loves to roll dice and hold cards in their hands, and I've found many gamers we don't know personally who have playtested the game have similar sentiments and enjoy it. The cards in hand mechanic works well for our game given that your team of heroes or villains is pitted against another team of super-beings, (unlike Arkham Horror, which is co-op) and you don't want enemy players to know every little plan or stratagem that you may have when you encounter your foes. Batman might not want Superman to know that he has Kryptonite in his belt if he had to go up against him, for instance.

We are working to touch up the video for gameplay elements to demonstrate these gameplay mechanics, which can be quite fun, depending on your taste in gameplay mechanics. I wonder how much of this I should write in to the description on our kickstarter page posted above, but I suppose that depends on how detailed the video is. I definitely want the game to be something that people understand the gist of up front, so that, if they don't like games that use dice and cards, like DnD,Pathfinder, The Risk: Star Wars Trilogy Edition or Lord of the Rings Edition, Anachronism, etc., they are aware of the gameplay ahead of time. Thanks again. I am definitely taking your feedback into account.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TTDG
United States
Fairfax
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have a few tentative thoughts. Why are you mixing things like assult rifle and sniper with the superhuman stuff? If you do so, then I'd take sniper further out in stretch goals than #1. Consequently, the classic Speedster would move up to #1.

The city board certainly looks symetric. Now you may have game reason for that, but consider a slight asymetry. ... how to describe this? Remove the middle metro and SE metro. Pull the S metro east 1 block and the harbor metro west 1 block. Now the meto line on the east zigzags up, and more importantly there is no cross. It is all just a loop, but people ought to still be able to get to all of the districts. Again though, you may have strong game reasons for the existing layout.

And other slight aesthetic change on the map, generaly, make the buildings in the center taller. At a minimum, add more height varriablitiy, as it looks oddly uniform now. I realize that perspective is an issue, but I do see places where some buildings could be taller, more window lines could be added, and some places toward the edges where buildings could be shorter. It should feel like a slightly jagged pyramid, as opposed to how flat it feels now. Feel free to throw in a 1 way street downtown too, or single lane 2 way, partly to give room for taller buildings. That could also make certainspaces feel more crowded, which cities tend to feel like.

3 roads leave the board. 2 south and 1 north. What about, 1 west? All of the buildings are the same color, and none are metalic and glassy. So, say the slums are faced with red brick, etc. Or, if you move the SW metro 1 small block north, you could take that road and start to make it a raised highway with no stoplight there, and giving it a bit of curves to it. Heh, you might even have an under highway space right next to the slums.

You game is going to partly depend on balance. If players find a power combo that is always more powerful than a standard deck, it will be trouble. So I hope you've looked at games like Champions and how they balanced powers. Basicaly, the fluff changes but the dice scale with the cost. And given the good art I see, you can deal with different fluffs behaving similarly.

Oh, you might prestate what the 3 stages are near the top. Then detail them as you already do latter.

And you better have some reviews of the game before you go live. You might get away with a video of a full game play.

You can double side the board as a stretch goal. Transitioning from sea, swamp, mountains, to space, might be a nice change from stictly urban fighting. Or, the city at night with darker streats and lights, if you can come up with some in-game effects for the difference. But I agree, the base board better be included already. Then again, you could consider modular tiles to make up the board. If cost is an issue, it would be worth including a board even if you have to knock out a deck or 2 in the base game.

Ugh, the vido looks more like an ad for a comic book than for a game, and tells me next to nothing about the game. As a hook, ok. But after the hook you need info. All the art in the world does not a good game make, and worse, if that is what you focus on, I feel like you are trying to hide a bad game.

The KS does not have a link to the rules, or to BGG.

Your Game Mechanics section is woefully unfull. Clearly you have more mechanics than you bother to spell out there, which again, either feels like you are hiding something, or that the game is not really your focus, or that this is your 1st KS.

The demi-god pic fails to load.

I realize some of my comments are likely already too late. Oh well, and I wish you the best. Take what you can and get better.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Thanks for the feedback. Actually we do have time before we launch to dial in some details, and have decided not to officially launch until September. This is our first kickstarter, so I want to make sure everything is lined up.

Concerning Game Balance: We do have a Card level point system and rubric for card design that keeps the game from having overpowering characters. There may be some unforeseen combos that might show up, but we have done extensive playtesting, and plan to do more all the way up until our kickstarter resolves itself. (Partly because we like playing the game)All decks must add up to the agreed upon point level totals for the game, and have a generally similar number of cards per deck. Furthermore, multi-classing limits access to the highest level cards, preventing broken combos and keeping each power origin unique and distinct. This ensures that no one is walking over anyone else and gameplay continues to be balanced.

Concerning the Mechanics Section in Kickstarter: We definitely don't want to come across like we have anything to hide. I wasn't sure how much detail is needed regarding mechanics. I will add details on how the game works in the Game Mechanics section, including our 75 page PDF of the rulebook (It still needs some graphic design). A video of gameplay is in the works, getting ready for some shooting and editing, hopefully by this weekend.

The Map: The Map was hard to make playable while still giving a sense of perspective. I will see if anything further can be done.

The Rulebook: I will add a rough PDF of the Rulebook to the website and kickstarter so people can check it out. Excellent suggestion!

Concerning the Stretch Goals: Good suggestion on moving back the Sniper. The Speedster will definitely get a closer spot, and I think I will rename the Sniper Sharp-Shooter, since the powers deal with amazing accuracy and trick shots. Also, excellent Idea with double-siding the board as a stretch goal! I will tweak the Demi-God image and make sure it loads. Perhaps a smaller file size will resolve the issue.

The Video: You aren't the first to point out that our video doesn't do its job. We are definitely going to have to add to the video to demonstrate gameplay.

Reviewers: We have reviewers previewing the game now, and hope to have reviews by the beginning of September.

I really appreciate the feedback. We are working hard to make this kickstarter work, and want the page to reflect the experience we have playing this game and the needs of outsiders looking in who might not understand the details. We feel the game is pretty solid in terms of both gameplay and balance, and most of the art is done, so now it comes down to the presentation.

This is a very exciting, but also nerve-wracking experience. I love playing and designing games, but the whole business end of things is brand new, so as blind men, we appreciate all of the insight we can get. I really love to hear your thoughts! No feedback can come to late as far as I am concerned. I have the drive and passion to make this baby work.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TTDG
United States
Fairfax
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A draft version of your rule book, without graphics, is an okay thing to get some early feedback on. In other words, you don't have to wait until the end for that, as long as the meat is complete, we can wait on chrome. And, you'd get good feedback earlier for spelling, grammer, rules questions, layout, flow, etc. Wow, 75 pages... that is either an extensive rulebook or the game is more complicated than I thought.

If, you fill out the game page here on BGG, then the very act of posting pictures, IDing mechanics, spot for rules download, having another place for reviews, and video of a session report, will all help you.

Edit:
I just focused on the part where you say 10 d10 dice. That is a fair amount. So, a stretch goal, and possibly a KS exclusive, could be custom dice. Just figure out a symbol to print on the '0' side, or a fancy color that is a bit more thematic, etc. Some players don't like passing dice around the table, so, potentialy you could do as a stretch making sure at least 2 players have their own set of dice. Heh, you might even consider a die that goes 2-11, only useable when alredy using the maximum number of dice. (I.e only 1 of the 10 d10 would go to 11.) Though, I'd not make a d11 exclusive.

Edit2:
More details. I count 392 cards, but you say 'over 230' and '880'. The number needs to be consistent, and not count stretch goals premptively in the rewards.

The poster art, you may want to make that available as an add on, and as an add on or stretch wallpaper. (This would remove the $15 level.) And, if you've not already done it, do the same for a pic of all of the cards (maybe without text?) on a single sheet. These are nice bene's for fan of the art, and bring in a bit more money for hopefully not much more work.

Hmm, if you can use the cards in a storyboard format to quasi tell a game story resulting in a mini-comic, you will have gold.

Edit3:
Grr, I see 4 boats on the city map, all identical. Why? Surely 1 could be a bit longer, or one a different color. Unless it is truely an icon, then the variety adds richness to your world.

Actualy, I am curious as to what all on the map is icons, and what the icons do/mean.

The border between downtown and Regal Estates cuts though a building, which does not make a lot of sense.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Stretch Goal Idea: Dice! Custom dice would be awesome. Perhaps we can shoot for up to 30 dice for a six player mode. I'll have to ask the game printer guys what they would quote us for something like that.
The idea of a quasi story book with the cards might be doable as well...Some of the card sets do tell a story of sorts...

Also, thanks for the Card Count typo!

I have to contact the artist to see if there is any room for him to modify the map...I like the idea of adding more diversity to the different districts...

Thanks again...


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Custom dice is an excellent idea.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest Agee
United States
Albuquerque
NM
flag msg tools
Hello all,

So, I had a question for everyone out there who might be looking: What superpowers would you like to see in a Superhero game? Right now, in our game, we have four general origins (think of them as character classes)

Inspired (Training and skill based characters like Batman)

Mutant (Physical powers like super strength or super speed, like The Flash)

Gear Head (Mechanical Powers like bionics, high tech weapons, and Armor like Robocop or Iron Man)

Paranormal (Mental powers based on psychic ability or sorcery like Professor X or Dr. Strange)

A side note: Since we are our own universe, we aren't trying to stick with the same concepts as Brand Name Comics (like psychics and mutants being lumped together), so our mutant is different from that of the Marvel mutant.

While we have developed over 100 powers so far, I was wondering, what powers, equipment, etc. you would like to have if you were playing a superhero or super villain?

We are trying to make sure we cover all of the bases. Any thoughts?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.