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Subject: So much WANT TO BUY this game, but game graphics are a SHOW STOPPER rss

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Yann
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First of all, I am not the complaining type, and usually not very exigent about the aesthetic of the games, I have zero issue with the graphic design of Le Havre, Carcassonne or Tigris & Euphrates, just the opposite.

Nation is the first game I actually very much want to buy for the mechanic and civilization theme where I feel blocked by the visuals of the games.

I remember seeing game which I would almost consider buying just for the visuals (jaw dropping Archipelago), but never the other way around.

I showed it to my wife to get her opinion, and got turn off after she saw the design of the cards of the games, which she studied with great attention and disbelief.

Beyond personal taste (maybe some people adore the visual of Nation, and I respect the very daring choice of visual), the "ingenuous" graphics seem to me totally incompatible thematically with a civilization game (I am looking at you Augustus and Ziggurat).

Am I the only one to whom the graphics of nations provoke such a strong reaction?

As of today, regardless of how much I d like to play this game, I am either stuck with having to go for a print and play option, or have to wait 10 years till the anniversary edition comes out with some revamped graphics.

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youtch wrote:
First of all, I am not the complaining type, and usually not very exigent about the aesthetic of the games, I have zero issue with the graphic design of Le Havre, Carcassonne or Tigris & Euphrates, just the opposite.

Nation is the first game I actually very much want to buy for the mechanic and civilization theme where I feel blocked by the visuals of the games.

I remember seeing game which I would almost consider buying just for the visuals (jaw dropping Archipelago), but never the other way around.

I showed it to my wife to get her opinion, and got turn off after she saw the design of the cards of the games, which she studied with great attention and disbelief.

Beyond personal taste (maybe some people adore the visual of Nation, and I respect the very daring choice of visual), the "ingenuous" graphics seem to me totally incompatible thematically with a civilization game (I am looking at you Augustus and Ziggurat).

Am I the only one to whom the graphics of nations provoke such a strong reaction?

As of today, regardless of how much I d like to play this game, I am either stuck with having to go for a print and play option, or have to wait 10 years till the anniversary edition comes out with some revamped graphics.



hi , i fully agree with you on this one... the artwork is so amateurish ... and the component certainly doesnt justify the hefty price tag.... look at the artwork on 7 wonders... this should be the artwork worthy for a great civilization game.... not this kiddish sketch.... truly disappointing..
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youtch wrote:
First of all, I am not the complaining type, and usually not very exigent about the aesthetic of the games, I have zero issue with the graphic design of Le Havre, Carcassonne or Tigris & Euphrates, just the opposite.

Nation is the first game I actually very much want to buy for the mechanic and civilization theme where I feel blocked by the visuals of the games.



I guess that we buy games mainly for their gameplay value - nice graphics are a plus but not the main deciding factor.

If i would like something to look nice, i would buy a painting, not a game.
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Pap Qaq
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GeoMan wrote:
youtch wrote:
First of all, I am not the complaining type, and usually not very exigent about the aesthetic of the games, I have zero issue with the graphic design of Le Havre, Carcassonne or Tigris & Euphrates, just the opposite.

Nation is the first game I actually very much want to buy for the mechanic and civilization theme where I feel blocked by the visuals of the games.



I guess that we buy games mainly for their gameplay value - nice graphics are a plus but not the main deciding factor.

If i would like something to look nice, i would buy a painting, not a game.


I agree with both sides of this. I like nations as a game but I think a lot of the art design choices were poor. The card backs are washed out and very hard to distinguish between type and age, the cards are too small, the artwork is mediocre, the lettering and spacing in some cases looks bad. It seems like effort was spent on the exterior but not the interior, which is a fairly cynical approach given that all the promo's will just feature exterior art. It is definitely overpriced from a component standpoint. This should probably be a $50 game or less.

All that being said, I do enjoy the game and with the exception of adjustments for player count scaling I think the designers did a nice job. For me the aesthetics are less relevant than the game itself.
 
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Juan Manuel Dominguez
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I for one love the art. It reminds me a lot to the art of old history books I used in highschool while studying ancient civilizations, so it's a perfect this. I'd rather have this style than the on other civ games.
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Cory Yates
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Overpriced, yes...far too overpriced. Don't care what anyone says about that...it is overpriced. However, I love the art style. The watercolor look is beautiful to me. I wouldn't change it at all personally. To me, if the art was like the cover, I wouldn't like it as much. Don't get me wrong its a GREAT looking cover, but if I took that image of Abe Lincoln and put it on one of the cards, it truly wouldn't appeal to me as much as the art style chosen for the individual cards. Art is subjective, but I hope they don't change it in this game.

Now, some of the graphic design choices outside of the illustrations, I would definitely change.
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Chad Ackerman
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The box art is great, but the component art and quality was disappointing. However, it's the price point and repetitive gameplay that truly kept me away from the game. The art I could have at least gotten used to. I've got my eye on Progress: Evolution of Technology as a possible alternative. Ultimately, though, 7 Wonders and Archipelago already satisfy my Civilization-themed needs exceptionally well.
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Pap Qaq
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Evenhope wrote:
The box art is great, but the component art and quality was disappointing. However, it's the price point and repetitive gameplay that truly kept me away from the game. The art I could have at least gotten used to. I've got my eye on Progress: Evolution of Technology as a possible alternative. Ultimately, though, 7 Wonders and Archipelago already satisfy my Civilization-themed needs exceptionally well.


7 wonders is a somewhat different game but I agree that is is absolutely excellent. Great game play, great mechanics, great game time, great components, great art, great price point. For me 7 wonders is the pinnacle of outstanding board gaming which is accessible to all but really tight and offers deep tactics and strategy when you invest a lot of time in it. I think many people dismiss 7 wonders as lightweight without really understanding its depth or it would be rated even higher. Its too bad Nations components aren't up to the same standard particularly given the price point.
 
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Steven Durst
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To be honest I was put off with the art at first as well. I almost didn't buy it. However, I made the plunge and was glad I did. It is one of my favorite games to come out last year. In the end, at least for me, gameplay trumps artwork.
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Sam Hillier
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The art is mostly terrible, yes, but you learn to overlook it quickly. The game is a solid, fun, clever, tactical Civ experience that plays very quickly and is easy to teach. I am glad I own it (also glad I got it on sale for a less insane price).
 
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Cesar Pena
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I totally agree with you. I bought it though, just because of the theme and because I wanted a streamlined version of Through the Ages. However, I would redesign the whole game, starting by the box size. The cardboard is flimsy and cheap, both on the player mats and the cards; the graphic design looks more like a draft rather than a final version or it also reminds of a 50 years old history or social sciences text book (there would be nothing wrong with that, it that was the intention but I'm pretty sure it wasn't); To me it's simply way below the standards of modern day board games.
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Jonathan Challis
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cesarpepe wrote:
I totally agree with you. I bought it though, just because of the theme and because I wanted a streamlined version of Through the Ages. However, I would redesign the whole game, starting by the box size. The cardboard is flimsy and cheap, both on the player mats and the cards; the graphic design looks more like a draft rather than a final version or it also reminds of a 50 years old history or social sciences text book (there would be nothing wrong with that, it that was the intention but I'm pretty sure it wasn't); To me it's simply way below the standards of modern day board games.


Agreed. It's like a prototype, not a production version.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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p1q0 wrote:
Evenhope wrote:
The box art is great, but the component art and quality was disappointing. However, it's the price point and repetitive gameplay that truly kept me away from the game. The art I could have at least gotten used to. I've got my eye on Progress: Evolution of Technology as a possible alternative. Ultimately, though, 7 Wonders and Archipelago already satisfy my Civilization-themed needs exceptionally well.


7 wonders is a somewhat different game but I agree that is is absolutely excellent. Great game play, great mechanics, great game time, great components, great art, great price point. For me 7 wonders is the pinnacle of outstanding board gaming which is accessible to all but really tight and offers deep tactics and strategy when you invest a lot of time in it. I think many people dismiss 7 wonders as lightweight without really understanding its depth or it would be rated even higher. Its too bad Nations components aren't up to the same standard particularly given the price point.


Ah here I agree with you. 7 Wonders is a great game.
 
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Pap Qaq
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Kelanen wrote:
cesarpepe wrote:
I totally agree with you. I bought it though, just because of the theme and because I wanted a streamlined version of Through the Ages. However, I would redesign the whole game, starting by the box size. The cardboard is flimsy and cheap, both on the player mats and the cards; the graphic design looks more like a draft rather than a final version or it also reminds of a 50 years old history or social sciences text book (there would be nothing wrong with that, it that was the intention but I'm pretty sure it wasn't); To me it's simply way below the standards of modern day board games.


Agreed. It's like a prototype, not a production version.


Exactly. Which is particularly baffling given the price. I was expecting to be blown away. A real head scratcher that tarnishes a good game.
 
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Joshua Nash
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Wario83 wrote:
To be honest I was put off with the art at first as well. I almost didn't buy it. However, I made the plunge and was glad I did. It is one of my favorite games to come out last year. In the end, at least for me, gameplay trumps artwork.


+1

My first comment upon opening the box was along the lines of "Really?!"
However, the game plays so well that level of component quality is quickly forgotten.
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Kevin Ice
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What really matters to me as a gamer is the quality of the game and not the components. But with that being said, as a consumer I'm bothered by the trend in games in general of declining production values at the same time of rising prices. Nations has a $99 msrp, which is simply taking advantage of gamers who will put up with being taken advantage of as consumers in order to get a good game.
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Jonathan Challis
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ktice wrote:
What really matters to me as a gamer is the quality of the game and not the components.


What matters to me is both.

Far more games come out than I can ever play, so I see no reason to play ones that don't have excellent gameplay and components. It's not one or the other, it's both.

It's a good game, but it's not been played in many months, and the components are a large part of that. People just don't enjoy the physicalities of it.
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The root of all evil ...but you can call me cookie.
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*shrug*

To each his own on this topic I suppose. I think the artwork is OK. I have made fun of some of the images myself but certainly hasn't inhibited me in playing the game.

I will say that this game is certainly my favorite civ development game ever. They nailed it. Not buying this game leaves you not playing one of the best games in this genre ever. I feel that's your loss as a gamer but as I said at the top of it. To each his own.

As far as cost goes yeah I think this one is a bit on the high side and shouldn't be. still the replayability of this game is amazing. When you play a 4 player game you see only about half of the cards from each age. Then the event cards...12 per age and you use only 2 each age in every game. The dynamics of how different card combinations can come up seem endless and then there's those events cards too. Regardless of how much you get component wise you get a LOT of game for you buck with this one.
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Ian Kelly
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The art for this game doesn't bother me in the slightest. It hadn't even occurred to me to be concerned about it until I saw this thread.

ktice wrote:
But with that being said, as a consumer I'm bothered by the trend in games in general of declining production values at the same time of rising prices.


I agree that trend would be bothersome, but it's not one I'm seeing. In general, board game production values seem as high as they've ever been. If there's been any decline, then perhaps it can be attributed to the recent rise of more independently produced games thanks to outlets like Kickstarter. These games by their nature are going to tend to be lower in production values and higher in price than comparable games that established publishers are able to put out.
 
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Chaddyboy
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I think the artwork in Nations is fine. It's not anything stellar or mind blowing, but I don't think it's poor either.

You also have to remember the quantity of cards here when it comes to how many illustrations this game took. Top tier illustrators will charge $100-$150 per illustration. Publishing a game is a big financial risk, and I'm not sure this game would have even been doable if each card was done by a premium illustrator.

With 344 cards in the game, all of them unique, an extra $50 per card in art costs would total an extra $17,000! So, getting $50-$75 illustrations would be absolutely essential vs. $100-$150 ones. It's just a financial reality.

Taking everything into account, I think they did a great job, and were able to offer the game at a very good price considering the cost of producing a game with this many cards when they all have a unique illustration.
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Ian Kelly
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
With 344 cards in the game, all of them unique, an extra $50 per card in art costs would total an extra $17,000!


They're mostly but not entirely unique. Within each age, all of the battles share the same art, all of the wars share the same art, and all of the "+ Books" golden ages share the same art. Also, your count of 344 is including the event cards, which don't have any card art on them. If you only count the progress cards then there are 296 of them, and after subtracting the duplicates it probably comes to around 230 or so unique illustrations, which is still a lot.

Quote:
So, getting $50-$75 illustrations would be absolutely essential vs. $100-$150 ones. It's just a financial reality.


I think it's a fair point that better art probably would have been prohibitively expensive given the quantity.

Quote:
Taking everything into account, I think they did a great job, and were able to offer the game at a very good price considering the cost of producing a game with this many cards when they all have a unique illustration.


As far as price point though, just compare the game to Agricola. Just including the E, I and K decks that come with the game plus the major improvements, there are over 300 full-size cards in Agricola, which all have unique (but also not very high quality) illustrations so far as I know, plus Agricola has better components overall and doesn't cost $100.
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Nicola Bocchetta
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I don't care much about the graphics of games I buy. I care more about the mechanics.

But for this game in particular I was amazed how "childish" the art looked.

I have never complained about the artwork in Agricola, for example, that I find coherent with the game, and pleasant to the eyes, without adding distraction.

Instead I find Nations' art, and the general graphics style adopted, quite unsettling.
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τὰ ὄντα ἰέναι τε πάντα καὶ μένειν οὐδέν
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The word showstopper originally referred to a song so good that the applause would go on that it literally stopped the show. It later went on to mean a girl so gorgeous she stopped you in your tracks.

So if you think the art is a showstopper, they must be doing something right!
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Derry Salewski
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I originally subscribed to some of the game stuff because of the artwork but lost interest in descriptions of the game play.

So backwards from you
 
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Skerasco Veraii
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Nations is a great game.

The artwork is fine.

Simple as that! Enjoy it ...
 
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