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Subject: Resource imbalanced ? rss

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Fulgrim Wu
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Someone new in another forum said that the rules should be fixed.

ex:
1.lumber and brick production should 1:1
2.lumber*1 grain*2 ore*2 for a city
3.turn order advantage 4>1>2>3

What do you think ?
 
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Billy McBoatface
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I don't see what problem that would fix. The game plays fine as-is.
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Jörg Baumgartner
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The game was designed to include Seafarers, but that got stripped out when ithit the market back in 1995. In Seafarers you have ships costing 1 sheep and 1 wood.

Actual production in any given game depends on the resource numbers, the fall of the dice and the places settled anyway. Players controlling a harbor will opt to increase that proproduct's production capacity, too.

You can test any variant you like. The changes suggested by you don't appear to make enough of a change to make testing them interesting to me.

When I toy around with different additional building options, I usually keepthe prices and functions of settlements and cities unchanged. In Explorers&Pirates, Klaus Teuber had introduced a lesser variant of the city,the harbor settlement for 2 ore and 2 grain, yielding only one resourceper hex but still worth an additional victory point and offering theability to build ships (and freeing up settlements for further expansion on the board). I am toying with other types of advanced settlements, e.g. a mining town that could place workers or workshops to increase certain outputs.
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xxx60709 wrote:
Someone new in another forum said that the rules should be fixed.

ex:
1.lumber and brick production should 1:1
At best, this rate should only be available for the first transaction. Otherwise, I feel it's too powerful to always get this 1:1 rate.

xxx60709 wrote:
2.lumber*1 grain*2 ore*2 for a city

C&K of Catan requires 1 wood and 1 ore to fix or "unsabotage" a city that was Sabotaged with that progress card, so there are some similarities there.

I'd say still give folks the option to build via 3 ore and 2 wheat as well.

xxx60709 wrote:
3.turn order advantage 4>1>2>3

Is this for when doing initial placement? So the mirror image is how it works going back round? 3 2 1 4?

I may be missing something obvious here, but it seems this arbitrary change doesn't make much difference.

xxx60709 wrote:
What do you think ?
These changes are probably 'unnecessary', but I will admit I feel this way since not counting that one time I tried Star Trek Catan, I haven't played Settlers in years. I don't enjoy enough that I won't mind trying variants.
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Fulgrim Wu
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ex1 i mean lumbers' and bricks' production hexes should be 4 each.

ex3 i mean in setup for placing settlements,4th player can put 2 at once
so he do better strategy than others,and 1st player can choose best
place at first,2nd and 3rd players get worse.
 
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Malcolm Howell
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ackmondual wrote:
xxx60709 wrote:
Someone new in another forum said that the rules should be fixed.

ex:
1.lumber and brick production should 1:1
At best, this rate should only be available for the first transaction. Otherwise, I feel it's too powerful to always get this 1:1 rate.

I believe the point is that lumber and brick are always spent in equal quantities in the base game (on roads and settlements), so there should be equal numbers of forest and hill hexes.

I disagree though; I think having brick rarer than lumber (which somewhat depends on the specific numbers they get) adds a bit of interest to the game's economy. The same is true for wool being ridiculously abundant when it's the least needed resource. Having the supply of resources not match demand makes managing them harder for the players, which makes for a better game.

As for turn order, I don't know that I'd say 4th has an advantage over 1st, but I agree the 3rd to place gets the worst starting situation.
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Nefrubyr wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
xxx60709 wrote:
Someone new in another forum said that the rules should be fixed.

ex:
1.lumber and brick production should 1:1
At best, this rate should only be available for the first transaction. Otherwise, I feel it's too powerful to always get this 1:1 rate.

I believe the point is that lumber and brick are always spent in equal quantities in the base game (on roads and settlements), so there should be equal numbers of forest and hill hexes.

I disagree though; I think having brick rarer than lumber (which somewhat depends on the specific numbers they get) adds a bit of interest to the game's economy. The same is true for wool being ridiculously abundant when it's the least needed resource. Having the supply of resources not match demand makes managing them harder for the players, which makes for a better game.
You may need to tweak the harbors when you move to expansions then, as Sheep does play a more prominent role when you play a Seafarers scenario/map that encourages or requires you to explore other islands. C&K allows you to spend 2 bricks for a city wall.
 
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jcv jcv
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In C&K you need wool for knights, in combination with ore. Both are not produced by cities (only 1; the 2nd will be cloth / coins).

If you combine with Seafarers you also need wool for ships.

And with the older versions you got an additional wool harbour with the 5/6 extension. Not sure if that's still the case.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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xxx60709 wrote:
Someone new in another forum said that the rules should be fixed.


So who would you think is more likely to be right: the designer of one of the world's most successful games that seems to have managed for over a decade without this, or "someone new"?
 
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Daniel Castellanos
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Maybe I never "got" seafarers. It seemed like I could either play with a hexagonal map without seafarers, or I could play with a archipelago-type map with seafarers. It seemed like it fundamentally changed the feel the game a lot, as opposed to C&K which just added on to the game I already knew. Is it possible to play with Seafarers and have a hexagon AND tons of islands around?
 
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ZippyDan wrote:
Maybe I never "got" seafarers. It seemed like I could either play with a hexagonal map without seafarers, or I could play with a archipelago-type map with seafarers. It seemed like it fundamentally changed the feel the game a lot, as opposed to C&K which just added on to the game I already knew. Is it possible to play with Seafarers and have a hexagon AND tons of islands around?
These are Mayfair 3rd edition scenarios, as I'm not as familiar with Mayfair 4e...

New Shores
but only 2 sides of the main island lead out to these islands.

http://www.catan.com/down/?/files/downloads/seafarers_rv_rul...
Heading for new Shores in the 4e version has a smaller island, but 3 sides contain islands that are adjacent.


Greater Catan has smaller islands all around, but the game requires 2 copies of Settlers + 1 Seafarers to set up. Also, the game takes average one hour longer due to more complexity, setup, and larger map
 
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