Recommend
11 
 Thumb up
 Hide
22 Posts

Lost Valley: The Yukon Goldrush 1896» Forums » General

Subject: The last time when I deal with Pandasaurus Games. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Maxim Kalenkov
Russia
Moscow
flag msg tools
Booh!
badge
Booh!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I want to tell the Lost Valley is one of my favorite games. I personally got around ten copies of an old edition of this game for myself and other players in Russia. I certainly was very much delighted by news that the Lost Valley will be reprinted. I am a backer of KS project by the reprint of this game ($100+$40 for 2 copies and shipping to Russia). Also I won one more copy of this game at a BGG competition. I did not still get my games. Since that point as the game was reprinted and appeared in stores I had been writing the publisher several times with a request to tell me when they plan to send me games. They did not indicate me any dates, and I received the last answer from them on April 13. Two weeks ago I was bored to wait for them to deign to send me the games for which I paid almost two years ago. I have purchased the necessary number of copies of this game on site CoolStuffInc.com. I wrote the publisher messages (through KS and email) with a request about refund, but never got from them an answer. The games have been available in all stores already for two months, but they are still not ready to send me my copies and do not answer messages.

I think it was the last time when I dealt with Pandasaurus Games.
26 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pandasaurus Games
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
publisher
www.pandasaurusgames.com
badge
www.pandasaurusgames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maxim,

I'm sorry to hear about your poor experience. The customer service e-mail got handed over to me recently and with all of the shipping of games and clearing customs in the EU my head is clearly below water right now, but my intention is to clear up any outstanding items this weekend. We had been answering our emails within a week, but that standard has slipped and I am looking to get some assistance there that should ensure timely responses moving forward. I apologize that you didn't get a response, it's not the standard that we hold ourselves to.

I can assure you that the remaining international games are all due to go out early next week (pick up from USPS has been scheduled). These are a manual process that requires me to pack boxes and fill out customs paperwork that has taken time and was further delayed by our need to open boxes and reshrink them with the mini-expansion in the box. Some have gone out already, but the bulk of them which were to go out last week got delayed because I was called out of town.

Your three copies are packed and in my office waiting on a postmen to collect them.

We've learned a lot of lessons throughout the campaign, and one of them is unfortunately that we were not properly equipped to handle international distribution of our games, and certainly not direct customer sales outside of North America. There is a reason so few companies operate across borders, it's not easy and we underestimated the difficulty. It's a simple enough process for 2-3 games, but breaks down quickly when dealing with 100s of games which is our problem and not yours and I apologize that it has impacted you.

Through this campaign we seem to have found a workable system for Canada and the EU (though not without some pains there as well), but still haven't found a scalable solution for people outside of those areas. This is my fault, and was borne out of enthusiasm of getting the project to as many people as possible and not entirely considering the logistics of doing so.

Tammany Hall was handled with a reasonably scalable solution, but because of errors at the warehouse that caused massive problems we moved to a new warehouse that doesn't have the manpower to handle individual order fulfillment on this scale.

If and when we run another Kickstarter with rewards available outside of North America we will be sure that we have a better process in place to make sure these games are all shipped at the same time.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trev
Australia
St Kilda
VIC
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stooge wrote:
Maxim,
clearing customs in the EU


Russia ia not part of the EU ... you may have read about the war in the Ukraine.

mkal wrote:
I have purchased the necessary number of copies of this game on site CoolStuffInc.com. I wrote the publisher messages (through KS and email) with a request about refund, but never got from them an answer. The games have been available in all stores already for two months, but they are still not ready to send me my copies and do not answer messages.


Man up. Give the guy a refund.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pandasaurus Games
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
publisher
www.pandasaurusgames.com
badge
www.pandasaurusgames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Trev,

I'm aware that Russia isn't part of the EU. We had some issues clearing customs that took far longer than it should have that took a fair amount of bandwidth clearing up.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Butler
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I do not giving you any more custom either, from here on out. You told me via private message that you had no plans on distributing the title yourself outside of the US. None at all.

So I imported from a private seller, at considerable expense, and what do I find out this morning? That Pandasaurus Games is selling copies, directly through Amazon, in the UK, at a very reasonable price.

So annoyed at your shocking incompetence at dealing with this matter. An extra £20 ($30) WASTED because of your statement.

Any comment on THIS development, Nathan?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pandasaurus Games
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
publisher
www.pandasaurusgames.com
badge
www.pandasaurusgames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
James,

I don't remember our conversation, but I didn't have any plans of distributing the game outside of the US. I imported some backup copies into the UK in the event that there was an issue on Kickstarter that required some back-up copies (lost in the mail, the inevitable damaged copy, etc).

These are simply those extra copies. I can either sell them, pay Amazon to destroy them or pay Amazon 100 dollars a month to store the un-needed copies.

In general, we don't sell directly to customers outside of Kickstarter, with the exception of liquidating copies that are left-over at Amazon after Kickstarter distribution. With Firenze we sent these extra copies to a distributor to sell in stores and it was a mess because Amazon doesn't pack removal orders very well and about half of them were too damaged to sell in stores after Amazon bulk shipped to them (evidently Amazon views a removal order as a half step away from a destroy order).

Certainly isn't a distribution plan, just had some additional copies that I needed to liquidate. My answer to you would have been accurate based upon the information I had available at the time, but with a small business things can change regularly.

We also had a UK distributor place an order for some copies about a week back so there will be some availability of copies at retail in the UK.

My answer to you would have been based on the fact that we tried desperately to get a UK distributor to pick up our prior games (Tammany and Great Fire of London) and never got any orders back and had more or less given up on distribution in the UK. Not out of want to not distribute our titles there, but because we had previously been banging out head against a wall and had more or less written off it happening.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maxim Kalenkov
Russia
Moscow
flag msg tools
Booh!
badge
Booh!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
One more week. Still no games and no money.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Shegda
United States
Greenville
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
that's not cool
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pandasaurus Games
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
publisher
www.pandasaurusgames.com
badge
www.pandasaurusgames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As I stated in this thread and on Kickstarter the games have all shipped as of this week.

There was a delay with Maxim's copy as the 3 Russian backers games had to go into the post office by hand which I believe happened yesterday due to restrictions related to printed materials being imported into Russia.

They should get to all remaining backers soon, but I can't imagine they would arrive to anyone until at least next week. Customs vary by country and the USPS isn't exactly the speediest of delivery services as it is.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Bate
United Kingdom
Staffordshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Amazon UK are charging £45 for LV. I bought a copy off them for £25 last week before the price went up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Young
United States
Springfield
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
stooge wrote:
As I stated in this thread and on Kickstarter the games have all shipped as of this week.

There was a delay with Maxim's copy as the 3 Russian backers games had to go into the post office by hand which I believe happened yesterday due to restrictions related to printed materials being imported into Russia.

They should get to all remaining backers soon, but I can't imagine they would arrive to anyone until at least next week. Customs vary by country and the USPS isn't exactly the speediest of delivery services as it is.

mkal wrote:
I have purchased the necessary number of copies of this game on site CoolStuffInc.com. I wrote the publisher messages (through KS and email) with a request about refund, but never got from them an answer.

Hi Nathan - it seems from the OP that he had given up getting the games and decided to get them through CSI. As a result, he is asking for a refund. Not sure if he'll be happy getting games he has already purchased elsewhere, especially since his request for a refund pre-dated your eventual response and shipment.
10 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maxim Kalenkov
Russia
Moscow
flag msg tools
Booh!
badge
Booh!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Another week is gone. Still no news, no games, no money and no messages.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pandasaurus Games
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
publisher
www.pandasaurusgames.com
badge
www.pandasaurusgames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mkal wrote:
Another week is gone. Still no news, no games, no money and no messages.


Maksim,

I've posted in this thread and on Kickstarter. There was an issue where the Russian government requires anyone shipping there to attest that there are no printed materials with subversive opinions on them before shipping.

This meant they couldn't go out with the main shipment (which was paid for online and picked up from my home), but did go out a few days later. It also meant I couldn't add your e-mail for tracking purposes because of the type of postage purchased (this, according to the post office worker, not sure this is true or she was mad because she had to process a package with a customs declaration form).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrés Pérez
United States
Germantown
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stooge wrote:
mkal wrote:
Another week is gone. Still no news, no games, no money and no messages.


Maksim,

I've posted in this thread and on Kickstarter. There was an issue where the Russian government requires anyone shipping there to attest that there are no printed materials with subversive opinions on them before shipping.

This meant they couldn't go out with the main shipment (which was paid for online and picked up from my home), but did go out a few days later. It also meant I couldn't add your e-mail for tracking purposes because of the type of postage purchased (this, according to the post office worker, not sure this is true or she was mad because she had to process a package with a customs declaration form).

As Jeff pointed out, the most customer friendly response in this situation would have been to issue a refund. Since you didn't do that, then the next best thing would be to provide him any tracking information you have. If you don't happen to have any tracking information, then you should have messaged him with the ETA and then checked in with him from time to time (If you don't have an ETA, then you still check in with him). If you are too busy to regularly check in with him (but you don't seem to be, since you respond to this thread) then the last thing you should probably be doing is getting annoyed with him for being frustrated.

Edit: Please take this as helpful advice
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pandasaurus Games
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
publisher
www.pandasaurusgames.com
badge
www.pandasaurusgames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HokieGeek wrote:
stooge wrote:
mkal wrote:
Another week is gone. Still no news, no games, no money and no messages.


Maksim,

I've posted in this thread and on Kickstarter. There was an issue where the Russian government requires anyone shipping there to attest that there are no printed materials with subversive opinions on them before shipping.

This meant they couldn't go out with the main shipment (which was paid for online and picked up from my home), but did go out a few days later. It also meant I couldn't add your e-mail for tracking purposes because of the type of postage purchased (this, according to the post office worker, not sure this is true or she was mad because she had to process a package with a customs declaration form).

As Jeff pointed out, the most customer friendly response in this situation would have been to issue a refund. Since you didn't do that, then the next best thing would be to provide him any tracking information you have. If you don't happen to have any tracking information, then you should have messaged him with the ETA and then checked in with him from time to time (If you don't have an ETA, then you still check in with him). If you are too busy to regularly check in with him (but you don't seem to be, since you respond to this thread) then the last thing you should probably be doing is getting annoyed with him for being frustrated.

Edit: Please take this as helpful advice


Andres,

Thank you for your help, and I'm certainly not annoyed at anyone and want to make sure everyone who helped make Lost Valley happen gets their reward copy (copies) of their game and hopefully enjoys it as we are super proud of this one.

Our aim here is to make it clear that we are in communication with all of our customers in the event that someone were to stumble upon the forum and think that we had totally gone silent and weren't fulfilling our Kickstarter backer rewards.

In this case all non-EU international games shipped at the same time with the exception of a delay of a few days for Russian backers because of laws in that country.

We certainly understand the frustration caused by delays but this wasn't a unique situation to any one backer. It was a delay caused by a few things that we have detailed in Kickstarter updates over the past year (primarily playtesting the expansions, a few issues at the printer and then a mispunched board in the final copies that needed to be corrected before shipping internationally).

We've learned a lot of lessons with this campaign and if and when we ever use Kickstarter again we will be sure that the files are at the printer and going the second the campaign ends, and if we take pledges outside of North America again we will have a better process in place to make sure it happens contemporaneously with all backers.

My posts here are only to make it clear to anyone reading the thread that we are engaged with our customers and not simply ignoring anyone.

All of our international customers not in Russia received tracking information and I've provided the date that the Russian games shipped. Providing an estimate of arrival is difficult because a foreign customs step is involved in the process. In a perfect world the game would arrive in 7-10 days, but that is rarely the case when customs is involved which makes it hard to speculate on arrival times (I've seen games make it through in less than a week, and I've seen games take 2 months to make it through customs where the backer lives).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Jamieson
Canada
Kitchener
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stooge wrote:


Thank you for your help, and I'm certainly not annoyed at anyone and want to make sure everyone who helped make Lost Valley happen gets their reward copy (copies) of their game and hopefully enjoys it as we are super proud of this one.


Hi Nathan
Im not sure if you are tied up with gencon stuff this week or not.
When you get a chance can you check news@pandasaurusgames.com mail box
I emailed on the 24th of June about not receiving the mini expansion that corrects the the 2 print issues (two conjoined triangles that are missing a punch and two diamond land pieces with 2 exclamation marks)
and sent a follow up today

thanks for your help with this
Kris
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Jamieson
Canada
Kitchener
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
resCube wrote:
stooge wrote:


Thank you for your help, and I'm certainly not annoyed at anyone and want to make sure everyone who helped make Lost Valley happen gets their reward copy (copies) of their game and hopefully enjoys it as we are super proud of this one.


Hi Nathan
Im not sure if you are tied up with gencon stuff this week or not.
When you get a chance can you check news@pandasaurusgames.com mail box
I emailed on the 24th of June about not receiving the mini expansion that corrects the the 2 print issues (two conjoined triangles that are missing a punch and two diamond land pieces with 2 exclamation marks)
and sent a follow up today

thanks for your help with this
Kris



Received my missing parts from Pandasaurus and a note saying they were busy with gencon - thanks very much for the help in getting this fix - really looking forward to getting plays in of this and to
Machi Koro coming out.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maxim Kalenkov
Russia
Moscow
flag msg tools
Booh!
badge
Booh!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good news everyone!

Yesterday I after all received all three games at my post-office. They were in two packages one of which (with one game) had been waiting for me already for the week, and the other one had been fresh. Outside all three games look completely identical. I did not manage to distinguish which one was my BGG contest reward and which two were a KS reward.

I opened one of three boxes at random. Good news – there was Lost Valley: The Yukon Mini-Expansion and errata inside the box. Bad news – there were no additional wooden components (boat and horse) for KS backers. I do not want to open two other boxes because I will have to sell them (because I have already bought several copies of this game in CSI). But I believe there will be in them no additional wooden components either.

I will write a letter to the publisher about missing additional components and write here that they will answer.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johnny Goslar
Germany
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The other wooden components were present? It would be strange if some are missing because as far as I understood they were all packaged the same.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maxim Kalenkov
Russia
Moscow
flag msg tools
Booh!
badge
Booh!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Joghurt wrote:
The other wooden components were present? It would be strange if some are missing because as far as I understood they were all packaged the same.


There were all standard wooden components in the box. I think I got usual retail copies.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Lorence Syfargo
Singapore
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mkal wrote:
Joghurt wrote:
The other wooden components were present? It would be strange if some are missing because as far as I understood they were all packaged the same.


There were all standard wooden components in the box. I think I got usual retail copies.


Hmm as did i. I'm now starting to think we international backers got retail copies...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Bate
United Kingdom
Staffordshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have a recollection that Pandasaurus has said elsewhere on another thread that the there seems to have been a packaging mix up a some point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.