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Machina Arcana» Forums » Rules

Subject: Range and LoS and Obstacles Clarification rss

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Adam M
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I just want to double check that I am playing this correctly.

There are two symbols for ranged attacks, one that requires Line of Sight (LoS) and one that does not. I am only concerned with the one that does not require LoS.

The rules states obstacles obstruct LoS, but some do not. This is clear. It does not say particularly what walls are, other than they separate space.

So are walls essentially obstacles?
If have a blood boost gun and i equip the precision scope(weapon can target through obstacles), does that mean it can shoot through walls?

Then if i have a pulse grenade, i can target any space that is within 4 spaces regardless of walls and action spaces and rubble, etc.?

Then to make matters more complicated consider the horror event that say push explorers 2 spaces from monster spawns. Do you have to LoS to be able to execute this? What if the starting spot is not in LoS, but the ending spot is in LoS?

Some of these seem to violate the laws of physics, but the rules as written seem to allow for such.

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Juraj Bilić
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Page 17. - Besides units, also any action space is an obstacle. Obstacles do not obstruct line of sight, but units are unable to use them for movement.

Page 15. - There are two types of ranged targeting, but both of them demand that their target/s is in line of sight.
Line of sight is broken with walls, rubble, barrier and closed doors.

And about the event, for example: Monster Squall (Push explorers 2 spaces away from monster spawn):
Every explorer finds their closest monster spawn, and based on the direction (ignore obstacles and things that break LoS), you are pushed away 2 spaces (check Push ruling on Page 17).
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Adam M
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Ok, so the first ranged attack requires nothing to be in the path. The second allows obstacles to be in the path, but still requires LoS.

Now as for the horror event, the rule on page 17 says: If the destination space is out of line of sight from the target, occupied, or unpassable, the target does not teleport.

So does that imply the target would not be pushed if the destination spot is not in LoS from the originating monster spawn?

Also, since this question may arise, can explorers move onto monster spawns?
 
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Juraj Bilić
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Quote:
Now as for the horror event, the rule on page 17 says: If the destination space is out of line of sight from the target, occupied, or unpassable, the target does not teleport.

So does that imply the target would not be pushed if the destination spot is not in LoS from the originating monster spawn?

The destination space in this case is not 'monster spawn', it is the space where you will be pushed.

Quote:
Also, since this question may arise, can explorers move onto monster spawns?

Yes, but it becomes an obstacle with explored token on top of it.
 
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Carlos Alves
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I had the same doubs, after reading a while. Let's me check if this is true.

Obstacle (No) / LOS (Yes)
Passable Space
Trapped Space
Pit Space
Destroyed Door

Obstacle (Yes) / LOS (Yes)
Exploding Barrel
Recharge Action Space
Workbench Action Space
Treasure Action Space
Event Action Space
Chapter Action Space
Trap Action Space

Obstacle (Yes) / LOS (No) --- Precision Scope doesn't work here ---
Wall
Barrier
Closed Door
Rubble
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Juraj Bilić
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Correct.
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Janet Welch
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Fantastic list I am going to print that off for those 'special' moments!
 
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Trevin Beattie
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There is one more case, according to the example diagram on page 15. It looks like if the end of a wall meets the LoS without crossing through it, it counts as an obstacle but does not block line of sight.
 
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Juraj Bilić
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Can you explain the specific case?
The LoS will not be obstructed (or act like an obstacle) if it meets the wall (not crosses it).
 
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Trevin Beattie
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Asipu wrote:
Can you explain the specific case?
The LoS will not be obstructed (or act like an obstacle) if it meets the wall (not crosses it).


If I’m interpreting the example incorrectly, then perhaps it needs further explanation in the rules.

This is the figure in question:


It shows the two monsters on the right are both in the line of sight, but the one on top has no obstacles in its LoS, but the one on the bottom does (it has the second type of ranged targeting.) Its LoS just touches the top of the center wall.
 
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Sascha
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I think that is because the Green line cross the space with the Unit in front of the bottom right Monster. Units count as obstacles.
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John Watts
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Trevin wrote:
Asipu wrote:
Can you explain the specific case?
The LoS will not be obstructed (or act like an obstacle) if it meets the wall (not crosses it).


If I’m interpreting the example incorrectly, then perhaps it needs further explanation in the rules.

This is the figure in question:


It shows the two monsters on the right are both in the line of sight, but the one on top has no obstacles in its LoS, but the one on the bottom does (it has the second type of ranged targeting.) Its LoS just touches the top of the center wall.


The LOS crosses the corner and doesn't pass through the wall itself so the bottom right hand monster is in LOS but the monster to its' left is not. The walls do look like they stick out where the squares meet, but this is just for artistic merit.

One thing missing from the above list are monsters/explorers which I think belong in the:

Obstacles (yes)/ LOS (no) - for regular ranged attacks

Obstacles (yes) / LOS (yes) - for 'spiked' ranged attacks

category.



Edited for regular and spiked ranged attacks clarity (awaiting final ruling)
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Not Guilty
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@Atlund The monster does not block the LOS but it is an obstacle !

The "spiked" range symbol ignores obstacles in LOS.
 
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Schw Ix
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For LoS you draw an imaganary line from center to center, as shown on the picture.

Since the line is touching the monster to the left of the target, the LoS
has an obstacle. Obstacles are units, action spaces, and monster
spawn spaces with the explored token on top. You can hit monsters
behind obstacles with a spiked target symbol.


I'm not sure which monster you mean by the monster with the red arrow.
If you mean the Byakhee, it is behind a wall. A wall does not count as
obstacle. You simply can not shoot through walls, rubble, doors and
barriers (unless an item allows you to).

Edit:

Ahh, the piles at the end of a wall doesn't count as wall, nor as obstacle.
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Casius Bane
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Wow I was playing wrong. I thought spiked ranged ignored everything and regular range ignored obstacles. No wonder my scenario went so well...

thanks!!!
 
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