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Subject: How to know if you shuffle up the initiative track when there's a surge: rss

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David Peck
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I think I've come up with a little observance that may help some people that have trouble determining whether the initiative track gets shuffled on a surge or not. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Surges that happen as a result of combat NEVER cause the initiative track to shuffle. Either new minions are placed on existing cards, or new cards are placed on the bottom of the track. In some special cases, you may be directed to follow the ambush rules.

Surges that happen from "Time is Short" ALWAYS shuffle the initiative track. The only exception to this would be if it is the 2nd surge on the tile, then just move the chapter end marker and move on with the same hero order.
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Ray Greenley
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Your method should work.

The way I think of it is to just look at the initiative track when you need to add minions, regardless of whether they are added from a surge or not. If there are any other minions on the track, do NOT shuffle and re-deal the initiative track. If there are no other minions on the initiative track, then DO shuffle and re-deal the initiative track.

Of course, since you only ever trigger 'Time is Short' when there are no minions on the board, and you can only ever get cheese from combat when there ARE minions on the board, it ends up being the same thing. It's always helpful to have multiple ways of viewing a concept. :^)
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David Peck
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Totally agree, Ray. Different styles of locking it in the brain.
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Galaad Maal
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RMGreen wrote:
Your method should work.

The way I think of it is to just look at the initiative track when you need to add minions, regardless of whether they are added from a surge or not. If there are any other minions on the track, do NOT shuffle and re-deal the initiative track. If there are no other minions on the initiative track, then DO shuffle and re-deal the initiative track.

Of course, since you only ever trigger 'Time is Short' when there are no minions on the board, and you can only ever get cheese from combat when there ARE minions on the board, it ends up being the same thing. It's always helpful to have multiple ways of viewing a concept. :^)


The distinction is not always that clear - what if the last minion on the board, rolls cheese on its defenseman roll which means it fails to block, is defeated, and at the same time fills the wheel and causes a surge? Combat situation, but no minions left when the surge is filled...
 
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Paul S
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Gmaal - it's suggested* in the forums that you place the cheese on the wheel immediately - so in your example the Surge would happen before combat concluded i.e. there'd still be a minion on the track.

(*copyright Ray, if memory serves laugh )
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Jerry Hawthorne
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Gmaal wrote:
RMGreen wrote:
Your method should work.

The way I think of it is to just look at the initiative track when you need to add minions, regardless of whether they are added from a surge or not. If there are any other minions on the track, do NOT shuffle and re-deal the initiative track. If there are no other minions on the initiative track, then DO shuffle and re-deal the initiative track.

Of course, since you only ever trigger 'Time is Short' when there are no minions on the board, and you can only ever get cheese from combat when there ARE minions on the board, it ends up being the same thing. It's always helpful to have multiple ways of viewing a concept. :^)


The distinction is not always that clear - what if the last minion on the board, rolls cheese on its defenseman roll which means it fails to block, is defeated, and at the same time fills the wheel and causes a surge? Combat situation, but no minions left when the surge is filled...
Yes, in this case the cheese is added to the wheel, the surge occurs, any surge minion is added to the bottom of the track, then the minion is removed along with its initiative card and the the track moves up to fill in its spot and play continues.
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David Peck
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Exactly. The cheese was a defense roll (combat). No shuffle.
 
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Galaad Maal
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That makes a lot of sense (and, incidentally, is how I did it the one time it occurred). On a related initiative e question, if I may - I assume that rat warriors moving up the initiative track doesn't give an immediate extra turn to the card displaced?
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David Peck
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Correct. At the end of their turn, if they were in position 2, they move to #1pushing that one to #2. #3 takes the next turn.
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jacob törn
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Heres a tip use one of the achievement markers and place it to the right of the initiative card to easily remember which mouse or minions turn it is. So if Collin is first place it to the right beside collins initiative card and after his turn ends move it down to the next initiative card.

When a rat warrior turn ends move the marker down, then activate the rat warriors special ability aggressive then switch rat warrior card with the one above, if theres nothing above nothing happens.

I think like this: initiative order

1. Collin
2. Rat warrior (the marker is now here)
3. Tilda

End of all the rat warrios turn move the marker down like this

1. Collin
2. Rat warrior
3. Tilda (the marker is now here)

Now activate the ability of the rat warrior switch with Collin

1. Rat warrior
2. Collin
3. Tilda (the marker is now here) Its Tildas turn according to the marker not Collins turn
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