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Subject: A new twist on religious freedom rss

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Jon Badolato
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I thought this was interesting. A nurse-midwife in Florida applies for a job at a family planning clinic. When they find out she would refuse to prescribe the pill to someone who wanted or needed it, they did not hire her. So she sues for religious discrimination.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/07/21/sara_hellweg...

This one is a bit ridiculous. As a nurse you KNOW what family planning clinics do. Why are you applying to a clinic knowing full well what the job requirements are, if you know you are not going to be able to fulfill those job requirements ahead of time.

That's like someone seeking a job as a surgeon whose religious beliefs dictate that cutting into someone is against their religion and shouldn't be done.

You can add your own analogy if you like.

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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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So she stated she wouldn't prescribe the pill for a woman who thinks she needs it to regulate a dangerously oscillating period for example if the doctor is not convinced it's absolutely needed? How could she be hired?

EDIT:
I overlooked a key phrase before.
 
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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jonb wrote:
I thought this was interesting. A nurse-midwife in Florida applies for a job at a family planning clinic. When they find out she would refuse to prescribe the pill to someone who wanted or needed it, they did not hire her. So she sues for religious discrimination.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/07/21/sara_hellweg...

This one is a bit ridiculous. As a nurse you KNOW what family planning clinics do. Why are you applying to a clinic knowing full well what the job requirements are, if you know you are not going to be able to fulfill those job requirements ahead of time.

That's like someone seeking a job as a surgeon whose religious beliefs dictate that cutting into someone is against their religion and shouldn't be done.

You can add your own analogy if you like.



Sounds like she's fishing for some SCOTUS.
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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bjlillo wrote:
I'm sure the lefties who don't think businesses should be able to impose their religious views on their employees will be here to defend her actions at any minute.

If she had been hired for the job after stating her religion did not allow her to do so and then she was fired for it, she might have a case.

Could I sue a business in the US if I applied for a job selling Philly cheese-steak sandwiches on Saturday mornings, told them I couldn't work on Saturdays or directly benefit from the mixture of meat and dairy?
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Chad Ellis
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bjlillo wrote:
I'm sure the lefties who don't think businesses should be able to impose their religious views on their employees will be here to defend her actions at any minute.


There are certainly lefties (and righties, for that matter) who think that businesses shouldn't be able to impose their religious views on employees with respect to their private lives. That's a bit different than someone saying, "I'd like a job at a business that does X even though I refuse to do X for religious reasons."

Probably the closest analogy you have is with those who object to the Catholic school who fired a gay teacher when he got married. I think you can make a solid case that they should be able to fire him but I think there's a difference between "doesn't reflect the values of our mission" and "won't carry out the basic job".
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whac3 wrote:
Could I sue a business in the US if I applied for a job selling Philly cheese-steak sandwiches on Saturday mornings, told them I couldn't work on Saturdays or directly benefit from the mixture of meat and dairy?


Could you sue? Sure.
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Moshe Callen
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Dispaminite wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Could I sue a business in the US if I applied for a job selling Philly cheese-steak sandwiches on Saturday mornings, told them I couldn't work on Saturdays or directly benefit from the mixture of meat and dairy?


Could you sue? Sure.

Yes but it would be thrown out of court.
 
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Dave G
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bjlillo wrote:
I'm sure the lefties who don't think businesses should be able to impose their religious views on their employees will be here to defend her actions at any minute.


I don't know any of those. As a lefty who thinks that businesses can't have religious views because that's stupid, I think that a business should be free not to hire someone who tells them up front they won't do their job.
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Damian
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Koldfoot wrote:
We are assured, absolutely assured beyond any doubt, every time family planning is raised that abortion is a tiny fragment of Planned Parenthood and other services. It's all about condoms and counciling.

Perhaps this woman believed the lies? She was under the impression that a nurse midwife was supposed to deliver babies and give prenatal care? She wanted to work in an arena that support adoptions?

She answered an ad seeking a nurse midwife thinking the place actually wanted a nurse midwife who would function as a nurse midwife? If that is the case, I think she has a case.

What does abortion have to do with anything? She stated she would not prescribe birth control pills of any type without a pathology.
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whac3 wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Could I sue a business in the US if I applied for a job selling Philly cheese-steak sandwiches on Saturday mornings, told them I couldn't work on Saturdays or directly benefit from the mixture of meat and dairy?


Could you sue? Sure.

Yes but it would be thrown out of court.



For the not working on Saturday thing, I wouldn't count on it, due to Religious Discrimination Laws. The Dairy and Meat thing, I don't know enough about to know if it is also religious discrimination.

Now if it could be shown the person hired instead of you was better qualified, then it would probably be dismissed.
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Dave G
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Koldfoot wrote:
We are assured, absolutely assured beyond any doubt, every time family planning is raised that abortion is a tiny fragment of Planned Parenthood and other services. It's all about condoms and counciling.

Perhaps this woman believed the lies? She was under the impression that a nurse midwife was supposed to deliver babies and give prenatal care? She wanted to work in an arena that support adoptions?

She answered an ad seeking a nurse midwife thinking the place actually wanted a nurse midwife who would function as a nurse midwife? If that is the case, I think she has a case.



In what world does a nurse-midwife not write scrips for birth control, Koldie?
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Moshe Callen
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damiangerous wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
We are assured, absolutely assured beyond any doubt, every time family planning is raised that abortion is a tiny fragment of Planned Parenthood and other services. It's all about condoms and counciling.

Perhaps this woman believed the lies? She was under the impression that a nurse midwife was supposed to deliver babies and give prenatal care? She wanted to work in an arena that support adoptions?

She answered an ad seeking a nurse midwife thinking the place actually wanted a nurse midwife who would function as a nurse midwife? If that is the case, I think she has a case.

What does abortion have to do with anything? She stated she would not prescribe birth control pills of any type without a pathology.

I missed the last phrase in my scan but still...
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
We are assured, absolutely assured beyond any doubt, every time family planning is raised that abortion is a tiny fragment of Planned Parenthood and other services. It's all about condoms and counciling.

Perhaps this woman believed the lies? She was under the impression that a nurse midwife was supposed to deliver babies and give prenatal care? She wanted to work in an arena that support adoptions?

She answered an ad seeking a nurse midwife thinking the place actually wanted a nurse midwife who would function as a nurse midwife? If that is the case, I think she has a case.



In what world does a nurse-midwife not write scrips for birth control, Koldie?


Take two condoms with a glass of water and call me in the morning?
 
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GameCrossing wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
We are assured, absolutely assured beyond any doubt, every time family planning is raised that abortion is a tiny fragment of Planned Parenthood and other services. It's all about condoms and counciling.

Perhaps this woman believed the lies? She was under the impression that a nurse midwife was supposed to deliver babies and give prenatal care? She wanted to work in an arena that support adoptions?

She answered an ad seeking a nurse midwife thinking the place actually wanted a nurse midwife who would function as a nurse midwife? If that is the case, I think she has a case.



In what world does a nurse-midwife not write scrips for birth control, Koldie?


Take two condoms with a glass of water and call me in the morning?


No wonder you mormons have so many kids.
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Junior McSpiffy
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
We are assured, absolutely assured beyond any doubt, every time family planning is raised that abortion is a tiny fragment of Planned Parenthood and other services. It's all about condoms and counciling.

Perhaps this woman believed the lies? She was under the impression that a nurse midwife was supposed to deliver babies and give prenatal care? She wanted to work in an arena that support adoptions?

She answered an ad seeking a nurse midwife thinking the place actually wanted a nurse midwife who would function as a nurse midwife? If that is the case, I think she has a case.



In what world does a nurse-midwife not write scrips for birth control, Koldie?


Take two condoms with a glass of water and call me in the morning?


No wonder you mormons have so many kids.


And all our cooking tastes like latex.
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linoleum blownaparte
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Something something, Kolob.

Aaaaaaaaaaand /thread
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Dave G
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Koldfoot wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
We are assured, absolutely assured beyond any doubt, every time family planning is raised that abortion is a tiny fragment of Planned Parenthood and other services. It's all about condoms and counciling.

Perhaps this woman believed the lies? She was under the impression that a nurse midwife was supposed to deliver babies and give prenatal care? She wanted to work in an arena that support adoptions?

She answered an ad seeking a nurse midwife thinking the place actually wanted a nurse midwife who would function as a nurse midwife? If that is the case, I think she has a case.



In what world does a nurse-midwife not write scrips for birth control, Koldie?


The midwives who deliver babies and give prenatal care?

Post a poll outside RSP. Ask what midwives do. Prevent pregnancies or deliver babies?

You are shocked that a woman who has dedicated herself to life opposes abortions or contraception?

Take psychiatrists and psychologists. To a layman they are about the same. However psychologists cannot prescribe meds. That is the very reason some people become psychologists. What distinction is there between A midwife who wants to do prenatal and deliveries, and one who wants to be more involved in family planning to include contraception? There isn't a legal difference. It is up to her to state the scope of service she wishes to offer.

A big part of her lawsuit depends upon the size of the clinic. If she is the only provider, the clinic is gold. If she is one of many her case gets more solid. Also depends upon the nature if their advertisement.
What world do you live in?


Ah, I see. You're confusing nurse-midwife and direct-entry midwife. Your psychologist/psychiatrist analogy is actually pretty apt there. A nurse-midwife is more akin to a psychiatrist--their job is to deliver babies and provide pre-natal care, but also to write prescriptions and provide services like an OB/GYN. A direct-entry midwife is more like a therapist--trained for the one specific job (childbirth) but not for medical practice.

You can't be a CNM who expects to work in a practice and not write scrips. Practices like this hire CNMs specifically to do this kind of stuff so they can get by with fewer doctors on staff.
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Dave G
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Koldfoot wrote:
It is up to her to state the scope of service she wishes to offer.


Also, if you believe this to be true, what sort of conservative are you who thinks she's entitled to a job even if she doesn't want to perform all the job duties? She's saying she won't do X, they're saying "fine, don't do X, but you can't work here if you won't because that's part of this job." What is it all y'all said about the Hobby Lobby thing? "If you don't like it, go work somewhere else."
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James King
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bjlillo wrote:
I'm sure the lefties who don't think businesses should be able to impose their religious views on their employees will be here to defend her actions at any minute.

False issue. The nurse-midwife wants the "Religious Freedom" to not only be exempt from dispensing birth-control information to clients but also to express her own religious views about birth control to clients in order to influence their decision-making.

You apparently didn't read the last paragraph of that story.


In her news story entitled 'Pro-Life Nurse-Midwife Who Won’t Prescribe the Pill Sues Family Planning Center for Not Hiring Her', reporter Amanda Marcotte wrote:
Win or lose, Hellwege’s case provides insight in how the war on contraception is shaping up. Direct assaults through legislation are going to be a much harder sell with contraception than abortion, so instead we’re getting the argument that someone else’s “religious freedom” — your boss, your nurse — entitles them to interfere with your ability to get contraception. Family planning centers are one place that women have long been able to trust will provide them contraception access without unnecessary hassle, and now the Christian right is trying to take even that away.




 
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Jon Badolato
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The nurse-midwife was the one seeking the job at a family planning clinic. She would have to be pretty dense not to understand that family planning includes contraception, including contraception types to which she might possibly have religious objections. It was incumbent upon her to find out what the job entailed, and what the job description was, and whether or not she was morally capable of fulfilling the requirements of the job.
If the answer there was no, then she should never have applied.

You don't apply for a job whose description you have moral objections to doing, and then claim that you are being discriminated against for not being hired.
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Les Marshall
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Koldfoot wrote:
We are assured, absolutely assured beyond any doubt, every time family planning is raised that abortion is a tiny fragment of Planned Parenthood and other services. It's all about condoms and counciling.

Perhaps this woman believed the lies? She was under the impression that a nurse midwife was supposed to deliver babies and give prenatal care? She wanted to work in an arena that support adoptions?

She answered an ad seeking a nurse midwife thinking the place actually wanted a nurse midwife who would function as a nurse midwife? If that is the case, I think she has a case.



Really!? You think there is a case for refusing to hire someone who actually doesn't know what the job entails? And then says they wouldn't be able to perform the job function?

Absurdity.
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whac3 wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Could I sue a business in the US if I applied for a job selling Philly cheese-steak sandwiches on Saturday mornings, told them I couldn't work on Saturdays or directly benefit from the mixture of meat and dairy?


Could you sue? Sure.

Yes but it would be thrown out of court.


Anything can can happen these days, it seems.
 
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bjlillo wrote:
Rulesjd wrote:
Really!? You think there is a case for refusing to hire someone who actually doesn't know what the job entails? And then says they wouldn't be able to perform the job function?

Absurdity.


My religion says that anyone who gets an MBA is either wasting their own money or the taxpayers' money so, really, I should be exempt from any employer's requirements who demand an MBA for a particular job.


But my MBA is strictly for recreational purposes.
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I think it is absurd to apply for a job that you know up front you are unwilling to do one of the primary job requirements.

*sigh*

I hate intentionally staged conflicts. Society already has too many real ones to sort out as it is.

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Of course yet again I am reminded I should hold off replying until I really check out anything from a SLANTED SOURCE...

The job she applied for was at a Tampa Family HEALTH center that provides full service with a focus on providing care mainly for the disadvantaged. Which works with and through faith based centers.

So this is not like she applied to Planned Parenthood. It isn't a FAMILY PLANNING center at all. It doesn't even list family planning as one of it primary missions or goals. It lists taking care of colds through chronic care needs. They do have a women's health subdivision, along with a dentistry, pediatrics and elderly care one. But birth control is hardly the only thing they do. I doubt it is even 25% of what they do considering the long list of services they talk about providing.

Therefore I would think there are likely dozens of positions within their 17 locations that don't have ANYTHING to do with prescribing birth control.

And that they work with/through FAITH BASED programs would make it seem like a good place for a woman who wants to help the needy and who has a strong faith to apply.

https://www.tampachc.com/about%20us.htm

Quote:



Our Mission: Provide quality, caring, and accessible health care to a culturally diverse community.

Who We Are: Tampa Family Health Centers provides high quality, affordable health care to people residing in Hillsborough County. With thirteen (13) accredited and certified medical locations, TFHC continues to live its mission and provide exceptional health care to all of its patients

Patient Focused: TFHC is Your "Patient Center Medical Home" (PCMH) TFHC is so much more than a walk-in clinic or regular doctor's office. We want to be your "medical home," a one-stop shop for all of your health care needs. Whether it is the common cold or continued care of a chronic illness, we are here for you. Our team of caring doctors and staff focuses on helping you achieve your health goals quickly and easily.

Community-Focused: TFHC works with local schools, shelters, and faith-based programs to provide health care, support, education, and outreach to the Tampa community. We also serve as a referral source for services such as food, shelter, financial counseling, as well as local, state, and federal assistance programs.

Our Staff: We are proud of our team as they are the foundation of our medical home. Our staff goes through extensive training to ensure that our patients are comfortable in our clinic. If you are interested in joining the TFHC Family, please see our current job openings on our Career Page.



So if you are Pro-Life you shouldn't be allowed to hold any positions in the medical field? Even when there are plenty of jobs that don't require dealing with birth control at all?

*sigh*
I hate slanted articles that basically LIE even more than I hate staged for show conflicts. Which it turns out this might not be afterall.

shakeshakeshake

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