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Subject: Amon strictly worse than Cadenza? rss

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Mitko Simidchiev
Bulgaria
Sofia
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Hey,

So I just got this fun little game and while perusing the cards, I noticed that Amon and Cadenza have the exact same stats of 2 Att, 1 Move but Cadenza is immune to disc collisions, while Amon only takes 1 less damage from a melee attack (which is a subset of disc collisions). Am I missing something or is that about right?

Thanks,

Mitko
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Brian M
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Thornton
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While that is not terribly clear, I think that "disc collisions" refers not to attacks, but from the damage taken when hitting a disk while moving and things like that.
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Robert R
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Cadenza's ability is both a blessing and a curse. Sure, he can't take direct damage from disc collisions, but there are a lot of other ways to kill him. In my experience, that ability often just makes him an early target like Byron. For the most part, I think you are right. Although, since the wording is so vague on some of the characters, I have house ruled on occasion that Amon's ability applies any time damage is caused from a melee attack. Meaning that he avoids area of effect damage triggered from a melee attack (flamethrower). And it would apply even when Amon himself is making a melee attack and accidentally runs into terrain or something else that would cause him damage. Of course, Cadenza's ability is slightly vague as well. Do ranged attacks count as disc collisions? You use a disc to make a ranged attack, but is a disc collision only defined as a collision between character discs? If ranged attacks don't count as disc collisions, then Rukyuk would have to be Cadenza's and Amon's worst nightmare.

Depending on the company, I find myself house ruling things often with Disc Duelers. The characters are not balanced. They are simply varied and plentiful. Ultimately, I think Amon is meant to be a defensive character like Cadenza. Instead of making him a straight duplicate in terms of abilities, he has a slightly different defensive ability that didn't fully warrant a change in stats, but also doesn't make him Cadenza's equal. It's just luck of the draft. I'm happy with either one. Overall, it's your flicking skills that win the game, most of the time.
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Brad Talton
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It's true that Amon's ability is slightly worse.

In a game where you draft characters, not every ability will be available to the players, and not every character's capabilities will be strictly equal. Amon presents a slightly less attractive defensive archetype, but if you want that archetype on your team, he might be the only option around.
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Giovanni Cornara
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There are several cases in which Cadenza will take no damage at all while Amon will take damage:

Melee Attack from enemy disc: (A) -1 Damage (C) No Damage
Ranged Attack from enemy disc*: (A) Full Damage (C) No Damage
Hitting another disc during movement: (A) Full Damage (C) No Damage
Pushed into terrain from an attack: (A) Full Damage (C) Full Damage
Hitting a terrain during an attack: (A) Full Damage (C) Full Damage
Being hit by a knocked-back disc: (A) Full Damage (C) No Damage
Special ability that counts as melee attack**: (A) -1 Damage (C) Full Damage
Other special abilities: (A) Full Damage (C) Full Damage

* Source: Here
** Any special ability that calls for a melee attack but doesn't cause any disk collision.

It seems to me there are waaay too many situations where Cadenza would take no damage, allowing it to take otherwise risky plays, basically counting his movement actions as 0-damage attacks (which are also safer for Cadenza as it won't take damage from terrain when performing them) thus making it deceptively more aggressive than his profile would suggest.

I've always somehow against house rules, and prefer to play games as written, but hey, Brad explicitly says in the rulebook to make house rules so here's my suggestions to "rebalance" Cadenza:

Quote:
1) Cadenza does not regain 1 life when an ally disc is defeated. It can be still healed by other effects, like disc and item abilities.


or

Quote:
2) Cadenza may not regain life from disc and item abilities. It may only regain life when an ally disc is defeated.


or

Quote:
3) Cadenza may not regain life. Period.


I admit I didn't try them yet, they are just thoughts. I'm going to playtest them and let you know.

Option 1 is my favorite, as I feel that is simple enough to give a slight, consistent negative effect to Cadenza's ability without nerfing it too much.
Option 2 is too randomly dependant on which disks are in play and on what you draw, while Option 3 is maybe a bit too harsh. What do you think?
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