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Subject: Planeswalker cards...help me out here... rss

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Aaron Edwards
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So I've been playing Magic off and on since the late 90's, but only very casually. I would usually just buy a couple of intro/theme decks every few years and play with my buddies. That to say, I'm familiar with the rules, but am out of touch with recent developments in the game at any given time. So yesterday my brother and I bought a couple of 2015 Core Set intro decks and he got a planeswalker in one of his boosters. He went ahead and added it to his deck and it came up during play. Specifically, it was Nissa, Worldwaker. We had to look up the rules on planeswalkers since they're new to us. The way it appears is that if I can't damage Nissa for 5 turns after she comes into play, it's pretty much game over. She gets to pull all of the land from her deck and put it all into play as a ton of 4/4 trample/land hybrids. That seems like an awful nuclear bomb of a card, especially at only 5 mana cost. I'm by no means a master player, but this seems far more powerful than any other card I've ever seen in this game. Am I misunderstanding or overhyping this? Am I just unaware of an easy way to control planeswalkers? Obviously an intro deck isn't going to (or meant to) cut it; I'm just wondering generally: are these things as game-breaking as they seem to a veteran newb?
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Tyler Bishop
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Oph1d1an wrote:
So I've been playing Magic off and on since the late 90's, but only very casually. I would usually just buy a couple of intro/theme decks every few years and play with my buddies. That to say, I'm familiar with the rules, but am out of touch with recent developments in the game at any given time. So yesterday my brother and I bought a couple of 2015 Core Set intro decks and he got a planeswalker in one of his boosters. He went ahead and added it to his deck and it came up during play. Specifically, it was Nissa, Worldwaker. We had to look up the rules on planeswalkers since they're new to us. The way it appears is that if I can't damage Nissa for 5 turns after she comes into play, it's pretty much game over. She gets to pull all of the land from her deck and put it all into play as a ton of 4/4 trample/land hybrids. That seems like an awful nuclear bomb of a card, especially at only 5 mana cost. I'm by no means a master player, but this seems far more powerful than any other card I've ever seen in this game. Am I misunderstanding or overhyping this? Am I just unaware of an easy way to control planeswalkers? Obviously an intro deck isn't going to (or meant to) cut it; I'm just wondering generally: are these things as game-breaking as they seem to a veteran newb?


That's 5 mana PLUS a 5-turn investment. Look at most cards that expect to be used on turn 8+ and you'll see similar effects.

Planeswalkers are very potent, but they're vulnerable to direct damage, attacks, and things that move counters.
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Mark McEvoy
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Yes, planeswalker ultimate abilities tend to be game-enders.

However, dealing damage to a planeswalker to reduce its loyalty is pretty easy:

1, you can attack a planeswalker with creatures. You declare you're attacking the planeswalker, its controller's creatures can block just like if you were attacking its controller.

2, any spell or ability you control that deals noncombat damage to any other player, you can choose to redirect that damage to a planeswalker that player controls (causing that much loyalty loss).

And 3, planeswalkers are permanents, so they can be destroyed/removed by things that affect permanents (like Boomerang or Beast Within). They also go to graveyard if they have no loyalty counters on them, so cards they remove counters like Vampire Hexmage will do the job.

That said, Nissa is the most valuable card in m15 for a reason. Around $35. Some Standard-legal PWs are worth only $4 or so; Nissa is 35 for now.
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Joakim Björklund
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Overtext?! We don't need no stinking overtext! Oh wait...
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b a n j o wrote:


Hi, I'm the most powerful planeswalker in the game, and it's not close.


Yeah, and it's not even because of his ultimate ability.
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RJD
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brewdinar wrote:
Oph1d1an wrote:
So I've been playing Magic off and on since the late 90's, but only very casually. I would usually just buy a couple of intro/theme decks every few years and play with my buddies. That to say, I'm familiar with the rules, but am out of touch with recent developments in the game at any given time. So yesterday my brother and I bought a couple of 2015 Core Set intro decks and he got a planeswalker in one of his boosters. He went ahead and added it to his deck and it came up during play. Specifically, it was Nissa, Worldwaker. We had to look up the rules on planeswalkers since they're new to us. The way it appears is that if I can't damage Nissa for 5 turns after she comes into play, it's pretty much game over. She gets to pull all of the land from her deck and put it all into play as a ton of 4/4 trample/land hybrids. That seems like an awful nuclear bomb of a card, especially at only 5 mana cost. I'm by no means a master player, but this seems far more powerful than any other card I've ever seen in this game. Am I misunderstanding or overhyping this? Am I just unaware of an easy way to control planeswalkers? Obviously an intro deck isn't going to (or meant to) cut it; I'm just wondering generally: are these things as game-breaking as they seem to a veteran newb?


That's 5 mana PLUS a 5-turn investment. Look at most cards that expect to be used on turn 8+ and you'll see similar effects.

Planeswalkers are very potent, but they're vulnerable to direct damage, attacks, and things that move counters.


Exactly. As long you're prepared, planeswalkers can go down pretty quickly. (In my own group's games, laugh I'm known for hating on the planeswalkers and often try to pop them as soon as they hit the table.)
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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As other have said, you can take out Planeswalkers with creature attacks and direct damage that hits players. If your opponent plays a Planeswalker, you can't ignore it. You need to decide if you're going to win before it can use its ultimate ability (which is basically always "win the game" except for a few cheap Planeswalkers), and if you can't, you to focus fire on the Planeswalker until it's dead.
 
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Aaron Edwards
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Cool. Thanks for the responses everyone. I started to qualify my original post by saying that I know lots of late-game cards can be game-enders. I guess I had just never seen one whose power was that outrageous. Plus it's mid-game effects are pretty powerful. But it sounds like you just need to be prepared with some permanent removals or player-damaging spells. So maybe I was overblowing it.
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Mark McEvoy
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Oph1d1an wrote:
But it sounds like you just need to be prepared with some permanent removals or player-damaging spells.


Or creature/board superiority.

If you can't remove permanents, deal damage to the opponent with spells, or deal damage via creature attack, you've already lost anyway. At that point Nissa is just Win-More.
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Mark Johnson
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BTW, now would be a really good time to sell Nissa.
You could use the money to buy a Duel Deck and still have some cash left over.
 
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Aaron Edwards
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Isolater wrote:
BTW, now would be a really good time to sell Nissa.
You could use the money to buy a Duel Deck and still have some cash left over.
Yea, I told him that when I looked up the card and saw how much it's going for. And since we only play each other and have no interest in being on the Magic scene I agree it would be best to sell it. I even offered to sell it for him since I'm in the big Magic store in town fairly often. But idk, I guess he wants to hang on to it. Next time I go over there I'm at least going to make him put it in one of my card sleeves.
 
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MGS
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Unless he has a specific destination to the money, I would keep it too. He "earned" it. The money is probably just going end up funding one or many things that will end up not being played much and forgotten.
 
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