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Marvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men» Forums » Variants

Subject: Advice needed on possible tournament format rss

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Daniel Brown
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I am going to running a tournament in a few weeks but before I set it up I wanted to look for ways to mix it up. The tournament that I have participated in and the ones I have heard about seem to be dominated by Gobby and Anti-Gobby decks. Someone else I know is running a themed tournament(Characters all on the same team) so I don't want to duplicated that. I am looking at the idea of changing the dice limits or dice cost on a few cards and see if that mixes things up a bit. Here are some ideas but I want to know other ideas that you might have as well. The goal here is just to see some variety in deck construction. I am not as worried about "fair costing" the cards as I am to just seeing some creativity.

Option 1:
Dice Limit
Gobby dice limit : 2
Tsarina dice limit : 2

Option 2:
Card Costs
Gobby cost : 5
Tsarina cost : 3

Please let me know your ideas.


 
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Kevin Warrender
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I had two ideas as far as tournaments go - neither of which changed anything about the basic rules and/or cards.

1) For the entire cycle, each player cannot bring the same card more than once. If you miss a month or someone wants to join the cycle late, you scratch off the top 2 (or 3 or 4, whatever) characters from a list of "most popular to date" as your penance for missing out. Needs some tweaking, but forces everyone to build 6 unique teams and find a way to win.

2) Everyone builds a team, fills out a sheet, turns it in. Shuffle up the sheets and randomly hand out to each player. They play that team. Would need some limitations on builds (obviously can't be all 7s), but also possibly allow for players to draw their own, which may make them not want to build a horrible team. Also possibly award one of the prize cards to "most creative" team. Again, needs some tweaking, but definitely should level the field a bit.

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Matthew McFarland
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Honestly, if you're going that route just ban the cards or all current Super Rares. One shop here had a no SR rule because of the lack of availability for month 2 OP, and in the other no SRs showed up anyway.
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Andre Metelo
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StyxParadox wrote:
I am going to running a tournament in a few weeks but before I set it up I wanted to look for ways to mix it up. The tournament that I have participated in and the ones I have heard about seem to be dominated by Gobby and Anti-Gobby decks. Someone else I know is running a themed tournament(Characters all on the same team) so I don't want to duplicated that. I am looking at the idea of changing the dice limits or dice cost on a few cards and see if that mixes things up a bit. Here are some ideas but I want to know other ideas that you might have as well. The goal here is just to see some variety in deck construction. I am not as worried about "fair costing" the cards as I am to just seeing some creativity.

Option 1:
Dice Limit
Gobby dice limit : 2
Tsarina dice limit : 2

Option 2:
Card Costs
Gobby cost : 5
Tsarina cost : 3

Please let me know your ideas.




Not sure either options are a good thing.

Tsarina is usually not that big deal unless there are some really extreme (less than 0.1%) cases. Reducing the dice will just make her really useless. Going up to 3 seems fair, but pretty hard to keep track.

Now Gobby is a little more complicated. Most of the current builds don't really need more than 2 dice to win anyway. What makes the card so power is when you add 2 Rally dice. Without Rally, Gobby is a pretty annoying, but without Rally a winning team needs more than him to win (usually follow up with John Storm, and the 5 cost storm).

I tend to agree with Eyefink, if you are worried, just ban the cards from your tournament. But I am pretty sure next thing everybody will be asking to ban other stuff.

To be honest, based on a few hundred games I played, the 1 card that really seems overpowerful, or Broken in MTG slang, is RALLY.

And I am pretty sure it is broken even without Gobby. (I can't wait to see if alongside the new Iceman).
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J. H. Horatio
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StyxParadox wrote:
I am going to running a tournament in a few weeks but before I set it up I wanted to look for ways to mix it up. The tournament that I have participated in and the ones I have heard about seem to be dominated by Gobby and Anti-Gobby decks. Someone else I know is running a themed tournament(Characters all on the same team) so I don't want to duplicated that. I am looking at the idea of changing the dice limits or dice cost on a few cards and see if that mixes things up a bit. Here are some ideas but I want to know other ideas that you might have as well. The goal here is just to see some variety in deck construction. I am not as worried about "fair costing" the cards as I am to just seeing some creativity.

Option 1:
Dice Limit
Gobby dice limit : 2
Tsarina dice limit : 2

Option 2:
Card Costs
Gobby cost : 5
Tsarina cost : 3

Please let me know your ideas.




I'd look at a few different options.

Draft options:

These can really help control the ubiquitous builds that are boring everyone to tears. There are a lot of ways to do this. One way I like is to bring your cards out, stack them in 3 piles of Common, Uncommon and Rare/Super-rare. Then deal yourself 9 from common pile, 5 from uncommon and 2 from rare/superrare. This approximates the actual distribution of rarity. Then flip the 16 cards and pick your team from it!

You can also do this exact same thing with 2 players and then have each player pick one by one (actually P1 picks one, P2 picks 2, then 1 each...) from the 16 characters.

Veto options:

Allow a constructed team of 10 characters and your opponent must veto away two characters.

Another half draft / half veto idea is to choose from the entire pool of characters (again in the 9C, 5UC, 2R/SR distribution) where there are no duplicate characters. So if P1 picks Tsarina with the 1st pick, P2 will now have 2 picks, but a) can't pick any BW characters and b) only has one rare left to pick. If P2 then chooses Venom: Angelo Fortunato and Beast: Mutate #666, then there are no more rares/superares to choose from and both Venom and Beast are now gone from the pool. Makes for some interesting choices! By choosing one character you are essentially vetoing all the other iterations from your opponent.

Other than that I'd only advocate for 3 distinct errata:
Gobby needs to cost 5.
Tsarina limited to 2 dice.
Johnny Storm costs 6.

The only reason I'd advocate for these is the above characters aren't invincible, but just so game-changing that for me (and I think quite a few others) it just isn't that fun to play with them as is. Too easy, too autopilot a strategy for all of these guys. A 5 cost Gobby would take care of the huge turn 3 potential that Gobby has. A 6 cost Johnny Storm acknowledges the total bad-ass card/character that he is. 2 Tsarina dice allow you to press on with an early rush as is currently done, but prevents the 4 Tsarina's by turn 4 or 5.

EDIT: forgot to mention - if you're going to make tweaks, then Beast #666 should probably have a dice limitation as well. 2 or 3 at most. But that's all the changes I'd make.
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Daniel Brown
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Thanks everyone for your responses. I like all the options mentioned. The issue I had with just banning the cards was that some people spent good money trying to get the super rares and the group and I did not want to tell them they could not play with them.

Veto option is interesting. I think I am going to run that by the group because it would take the least amount of keeping track during the game.

I will report back in a few weeks with what I tried and how it went.

Thanks again.
 
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Andre Metelo
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About the Veto Idea..

With the shortage of 2 and 3 cost characters, odds are that vetoing 2 of those out of the team, may cause the teams to be unplayable.

Imagine you have mostly a mask team, and the only reasonable 2 and 3s area beast and Gambit. One of the storms may work as a 3 replacement, but no other really viable 2 for mask.

At this point, you may be stuck without as many masks as your build needs.

IF the Veto moves forward, what about letting your opponent force you to pick a different version of 2 characters?

This way they can force you into the common or rare BW but still have the 2 cost fist......

And that would prove an interesting team building exercise, as now I have to account that some of my key characters may be changed to the less than ideal versions.. And gambit and ghost rider would be pretty much messed up...
 
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Ed Mendoza

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It's a tough thing to try to balance the play. Super rares are super rare for a reason; there aren't supposed to be readily available, thus the reason for the advantage. If it's not "fair" to be able to run the advantage in OP, then it's certainly not fair in casual games (where the SR will likely dominate most of the time). If you take both OP and casual away, then there's no point in the SR existing other than being a prized piece.

That said, I hear what you're saying, and remember that the game is still in it's infancy. As we start to get expansions and more cards, the playing field will level out over time. Let those that were lucky enough to draw a Gobby (or buy one) enjoy it's advantage.
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Matthew McFarland
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StyxParadox wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. I like all the options mentioned. The issue I had with just banning the cards was that some people spent good money trying to get the super rares and the group and I did not want to tell them they could not play with them.


Not trying to be an ass or anything, but what's the difference in outright telling people they can't play with them and adjusting the cards to the point where there's no point in using them?
 
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J. H. Horatio
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Eyefink wrote:
StyxParadox wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. I like all the options mentioned. The issue I had with just banning the cards was that some people spent good money trying to get the super rares and the group and I did not want to tell them they could not play with them.


Not trying to be an ass or anything, but what's the difference in outright telling people they can't play with them and adjusting the cards to the point where there's no point in using them?


Not an ass at all - that's a fair question. I think a 5 cost Gobby and 6 cost Johnny Storm are still good cards. Still very much a point to using them. They just go from from being ridiculously powerful to joining the ranks of all the other fairly good cards. The point of all the cards are to be useful parts of a team, not auto-pilot destroyers of worlds.

However, to your point, most of the issues of balance in games only really occur when a team includes ALL of the half dozen or so OP cards (which many many constructed teams are - which is the whole point of this thread). Which is why a DRAFT is really essential, since in that context those combos become EXTREMELY unlikely. Which is why the Rainbow draft is such an excellent idea and really a perfect balancing force in this game. (by far the most impressive, original thing that WizKids has come up with in my opinion)

But if boosters aren't available for this, I think the draft ideas that I put forward above solve any balance issues just fine - even without changing up any characters.

I think the big thing with this game is people need to break out of the "my deck", "my team" mentality that dominates most other CCGs and LCGs and allow for some randomness in who you play with from game to game. This is essentially a sandbox game and lends itself to customization on-the-fly, rather than pre-customization.
 
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J. H. Horatio
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metelo wrote:
About the Veto Idea..

With the shortage of 2 and 3 cost characters, odds are that vetoing 2 of those out of the team, may cause the teams to be unplayable.

Imagine you have mostly a mask team, and the only reasonable 2 and 3s area beast and Gambit. One of the storms may work as a 3 replacement, but no other really viable 2 for mask.

At this point, you may be stuck without as many masks as your build needs.

IF the Veto moves forward, what about letting your opponent force you to pick a different version of 2 characters?

This way they can force you into the common or rare BW but still have the 2 cost fist......

And that would prove an interesting team building exercise, as now I have to account that some of my key characters may be changed to the less than ideal versions.. And gambit and ghost rider would be pretty much messed up...


Good points, but you would reveal your team one character at a time and your opponent would need to choose then and there whether or not to veto. You can't look at your opponent's full tableau of 10 cards and say which 2 are out (although even if you could, your opponent could do the same thing back, so perhaps not that big a deal!). Sorry, that is a sort of important aspect of vetoing that I neglected to mention.

Even so, the character version switch is an interesting version of vetoing that hadn't occurred to me. Good idea!
 
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