Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Eagles of the Empire: Spanish Eagles» Forums » Rules

Subject: French Grenadiers at Albuera rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jacob
United States
La Plata
MD
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I figured the grenadiers would have some kind of ability like an assault modifier but found nothing in the rules/scenarios except this one line from the series rules (3.1), 2.22: "Small infantry counters represent reduced size remnants of a larger unit, or special units such as Infiltration Light or Grenadier Units"

Is this just historical flavor or am I missing something?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edgar Gallego
Spain
Sarriguren
Navarra
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't have at hand the game now, not at home, but I think that the grenadiers in Albuera are elite units (see the bomb icon). And elite units have modifiers in assault, and can always choose stand instead retreat. And they don't rout.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jacob
United States
La Plata
MD
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
See I was thinking that as well, but I couldn't find any definition of Elite Infantry in the series/exclusive rules, errata/FAQ, or on the counter ID player aid. I know Elite Cavalry have the black oval around their name, so are there other Elite Infantry? What about units identified as "light infantry" in their name?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brien Miller
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
We used three primary sources for the Albuera OOB, and involved two consultants with strong backgrounds in the Peninsular War to help us round it out. I have just been back through the notes and neither of them marked this particular Grenadiers unit as elite; one of them commenting on the infantry in service there as being "not of the best quality the French had to offer; those [with such quality] were with the main armies under Napoleon."

Looking at the numbers, we have 1033 grenadiers a' pied present. In this system, that normally does not quite rate a "1". However, both consultants marked this unit as a 3.5 (out of 4) which is normally considered a rating for an elite unit. In all likelihood, the rating was given just for the fact that they were grenadiers, but no more than that.

It might then be that we considered these V Grenadiers in one of two ways:

1. Not Elite: It's a small unit and the 3.5 was used to give them their combat value as a bonus for their Grenadier status already. Moreover, I see no distinction recorded for them to justify them qualitatively as "elite" in the sense that the game normally uses that term.

2. Elite: Despite being a small unit, traditionally any infantry force given a 3.5 or greater rating in the system's algorithm gets designated elite because they are in fact, in some way, elite.

My general feeling, baring discovering something I, Mark, Steve, or others wrote to the contrary, is (1) not elite: as that is how the game appears to have been tested based on looking at the test play reports. In essence, these Grenadiers where Grenadier's in name, but the special capabilities that make such a unit "elite" wasn't present.

What I will do is sometime tomorrow, pull the master sources (I have all the army lists, campaign rosters, and more) and will see if I can disprove my sense of it or find a more thorough design note that specifies more clearly our intent. Albuera is eight designs in the past for me and my memory is, regrettably, much shorter than that.

Back to you all soon.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brien Miller
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Having now availed myself of the original design notes, and having pulled the source data, I find that the Grenadiers unit as portrayed in Eagles: Albuera to have been an assembly of different "grenadier" units from the Regiments d'ligne, 45, 63, 95, and the 4th Polanais. This means it's a mixed bag of recently designated "grenadiers" from relatively new units and without prior cohesion as a single unit. Thus, giving them the 3.5 rating permits elevating them from a 1 to a 2, but in my view does not warrant calling them elite to give them the assault bonus of such a unit. Hence, NOT-ELITE remains the call and that was how the game was tested.

Hope this helps at least explain the reasoning as well as revealing some of the level of research we used to come to this conclusion.

Brien
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jacob
United States
La Plata
MD
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Brien,

Thanks a lot for the clarification and background on the research and design.

So to be certain after having checked all the short infantry counters, there are no elite infantry in Spanish Eagles? This is my first game in the series (though I plan to get Preussisch-Eylau quite soon) so I was a bit confused by references in the consolidated modifiers to Elites, yet finding nothing on the counter ID sheet on how Elite Infantry are identified. (unlike Heavy Cavalry with their black oval, which I mistakenly labeled 'Elite Cavalry' in the OP, or lancers) Perhaps this could be clarified if there were to be an update to the errata? Additionally, I found the counter for the French 1st Hussars bearing the rounded Talavera Historical label yet it was not listed on the corresponding scenario sheet, but was on the sheet for the alternative scenario. Do you know if this a misprint on the counter or the scenario sheet, which scenario(s) does it belong to? (wasn't mentioned in the errata)

I appreciate that you apparently continue to support the game some time after its publication. I'm very impressed with the level of detailed research your posts suggest and would be quite interested in reading the historical research (perhaps you could include more detailed OOBs with troop numbers and such in the scenario books of any future titles?) and more detailed design notes. Have you made any of this available online or would it be possible to do so?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brien Miller
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
We tend to discuss it over on Consimworld (http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.ee6ca40) in the Eagles (and other game) folders. Our OOBs for this game were derived from sources such as Oman. Gates and the OOB's published by Natzinger. Few if any sources are perfect and hence we cross check and evaluate by then going off to other sources to see where various units might have been or where they came from to get a sense of that unit.

So, yes, to the best of recollection, there are no elite units in Spanish Eagles. The rules are meant to cover the series and hence why there are references to things that might not apply to or be in all the titles.

The next title is Austerlitz.

One word about Eylau: jump right to the battle- skip the introductory scenario- there are issues with it which we never updated so go right to the main event.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.