Ken
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So with round 2 behind us, it's time to start thinking about round 3. I've decided to skip the polls this time and just ask for free-form responses. Here's the key questions for the next round:

- What (if any) dust limit should we use?
- What (if any) gimmick should we use?
- How should we score the tournament? Should we run a more traditional pool play/ladder? Or something else?
- Should we be looking at multiple tournaments (we only had the bourgeouis this time around - so should we have a high limit and a low limit group)?

I'm open to thoughts and will actually be trying not to respond critically to any that are proposed for a while. I know what I liked & didn't like last time, but I don't want that to get in the way of any good ideas by poisoning the well.

Multiple suggestions welcome, and you don't need to reply to all of the questions - just those you want to.
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Paul W
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As far as dust limit, I'd advocate either something lower (like 1800 or 2000) or unlimited. Perhaps even both...having two divisions available to play one or both of. The limit last time was in an awkward place where playing a legendary used up practically your entire budget,I definitely think either higher or lower would be a better way to go.

edit - please no gimmick.. .I just want to play hearthstone.

One final thing to figure out...what Naxx cards will be legal...I assume we'll allow everything that been released by the time deck lists are due?
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What about a low dust limit like you suggest, but your most expensive card is free (ie, everybody gets to play one legendary if they have one).

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I'd enjoy doing something a little gimmicky (but not too over the top.)Otherwise I'm just playing HS, which I already do a lot. There's a lot of thematic things that might be fun, but I enjoy the WoW lore. Like, all your allies have to be the same race or something.

Or maybe to celebrate Naxx have a required number of naxx cards-- or maybe make them cheaper against the dust limit or something.

I think a higher dust limit would allow a little more thought to including a legendary-- like others have said, it sacrificed too much last time I think.

I thought the scoring was a little weird. I'd just use Magic's system to go by matches. Or just go by games won if you want to make people play out X number of games. Maybe give some number of points for losing a match to reward participation?
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fizzmore wrote:
Perhaps even both...having two divisions available to play one or both of.


This thought had occurred to me, particularly with the other tournament not repeating. I think it's actually pretty likely.

Discussing the Naxx cards would be important, particularly if the problems with everyone getting access haven't been sorted out and some people don't have access.
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spoon wrote:
What about a low dust limit like you suggest, but your most expensive card is free (ie, everybody gets to play one legendary if they have one).


That's an interesting thought. Though I'm not sure that it's much different than just bumping the limit up 1600. Probably fairer to do that since you can have some decks (Shaman notably) that don't include any legendary cards at all. That would be a penalty for those types of deck.
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perfalbion wrote:
fizzmore wrote:
Perhaps even both...having two divisions available to play one or both of.


This thought had occurred to me, particularly with the other tournament not repeating. I think it's actually pretty likely.

Discussing the Naxx cards would be important, particularly if the problems with everyone getting access haven't been sorted out and some people don't have access.


If you're talking about my tournaments, I'll probably start that up again very soon. Been fairly busy with real life lately and with the lack of interest in the previous two attempts it just wasn't worth the effort to force another one at the time. Of course there's no reason we can't have three simultaneous tournaments, that may even be synergistic with the format I'll likely go with.

Regarding the expansion, my "purchase" finally went through tonight so the issues may more or less be resolved. It really shouldn't take more than an hour to unlock all of the cards either so my vote would be to make everything released so far fair game. If the tournament starts after other wings open they should be included as well, barring additional setbacks on Blizzard's end.
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Resurrecting this thread because I'm back from traveling madness and wanted to get people's input going before it starts up again (I'm in Europe mid-September for business).

Some limited commentary so far. Anyone else have any thoughts about format?
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I think all of the Naxxramas cards should be allowed, now that the last of them are about to be released.

As for a gimmick that would encourage people to play with the Naxxramas cards, we could have them add an amount of dust, instead of subtracting from your limit, based on their inverted rarity.

Legendaries could be worth +40 instead of -1,600 dust, epics could be worth +50 instead of -400 dust, rares could be worth +200 instead of -100 dust, and commons could be worth +400 instead of -40 dust. That way, a Curse of Naxxramas legendary gets you a free common, a pair of CON epics gets you a free rare, a pair of CON rares gets you a free epic, and a pair of CON commons get you half of the dust you need for a legendary.

If not everyone has all of the wings of Naxxramas, we could decide these inversions would only apply to the neutral cards from the Arachnid Quarter, as that wing was free.

Even if we did just invert the Arachnid Quarter neutrals, though, we could still get up to 2,040 bonus dust, at the cost of seven card slots, which is a bit much.

A milder Naxxramas gimmick would be "In the Name of (insert Naxxramas boss here):"
1. When making your deck, you choose a Naxxramas boss, and you can only use cards whose name starts with a letter in their (personal) name.
2. You must use the card/pair(s) of cards you get from defeating a boss, ignoring its name restriction. (Final bosses of each wing must use their personal reward cards as well as the wing reward cards.) Stalagg and Feugen also count as one legendary for dust cost purposes. This rule exists so that Baron Rivendare and Feugen can exist in their appropriate decks.
3. Instead of "The Four Horsemen," the name, "Rivendare" should be used.

For example, if I choose Grand Widow Faerlina, I can only put cards in my deck whose name starts with F, A, E, R, L, I, or N. If the Nerubian Weblord you get for defeating Faerlina didn't already follow that first rule, it would be allowed to break it, with the second rule.

These are also just suggestions. I'm fine with any gimmick or lack of gimmick we come up with.

Edited for clarity.
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So I like the idea of the "build a deck around a wing" suggestion - I think it adds some flavor without being overly restrictive or strangely broad. It also makes it easier for people to build a deck regardless of how much of Naxx they have finished.

My thoughts would be:

1. 4-5K dust limit.
2. Pick a Naxx wing other than the Frostwyrm Lair. You must use at least 3 of the four cards from that wing. If you use a card, you must use as many of them as are provided (e.g. both copies of any non-legendaries). You may use them all if you want.
3. You may only use one of the cards from any other Naxx wings, and you may not use any of the Legendary cards from other wings. So if you pick Arachnid, you can use one card from Plague, Military, Construct, or Frostwyrm, but not the Legendaries earned there.

My thought is that this ends up giving each deck some theme while still opening the door to lots of cards.

I could see requiring each deck to include one card from each quarter as an alternative, but that requires that everyone participating has completed them all. That could exclude players at this point so unless I hear from those interested in playing that this isn't an issue, I'd be inclined to avoid that format.

If there's real interest in a second division, then I'd go for "open format." 4-5K dust limit and go.

The scoring system from the last go-round seemed pretty popular, so I think I'd stick with that. Unless SG wants to supply a more statistically accurate method.
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Is there a spot in the game to look up wht cards were from which wings, I don't remember them all.

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Gamepedia to the rescue.
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serdudds wrote:
Is there a spot in the game to look up wht cards were from which wings, I don't remember them all.



Including the class cards (admittedly with the help of the wiki to fill some gaps):

1st - Nerubian Egg, Neru'bar Weblord, Haunted Creeper, Maexxna, Anu'bar Ambusher, Poison Seeds

2nd - Unstable Ghoul, Sludge Belcher, Stoneskin Gargoyle, Loatheb, Webspinner, Duplicate

3rd - Dancing Swords, Spectral Knight, Deathlord, Baron Rivendare, Reincarnate, Voidcaller

4th - Undertaker, Mad Scientist, Zombie Chow, Wailing Soul, Feugen, Stalagg, Dark Cultist, Death's Bite

5th, although irrelevant - Echoing Ooze, Shade of Naxxramas, Kel'Thuzad, Avenge
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And I don't think I'd include the class cards in the restrictions. Makes life too weird ("must play class that matches the wing?" - eeech. "counts as your card for a wing?" - seems a bit harsh.).
 
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Just let everybody play any deck they like, but one card has to be Loatheb, merely to be antagonistic and pointless. Also, if you draw Loatheb initially you must mulligan him away, and if you get him back or draw him later in the game, you may not play him. Plus, for good measure, you must actually play Priest, and you are not allowed any of the usual Priest shit.
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perfalbion wrote:
And I don't think I'd include the class cards in the restrictions. Makes life too weird ("must play class that matches the wing?" - eeech. "counts as your card for a wing?" - seems a bit harsh.).


Seems less restrictive, if you wanted to choose that class and use that card.
 
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scifiantihero wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
And I don't think I'd include the class cards in the restrictions. Makes life too weird ("must play class that matches the wing?" - eeech. "counts as your card for a wing?" - seems a bit harsh.).


Seems less restrictive, if you wanted to choose that class and use that card.


I'm not sure I understand your comment, here. I'm saying that I think limiting the class you pick to the classes associated with a given wing would be restrictive. Unstable Ghoul works for many decks that aren't Hunter or Mage, for example. While I like the wing idea, I don't want it to force particular class choices.
 
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perfalbion wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
And I don't think I'd include the class cards in the restrictions. Makes life too weird ("must play class that matches the wing?" - eeech. "counts as your card for a wing?" - seems a bit harsh.).


Seems less restrictive, if you wanted to choose that class and use that card.


I'm not sure I understand your comment, here. I'm saying that I think limiting the class you pick to the classes associated with a given wing would be restrictive. Unstable Ghoul works for many decks that aren't Hunter or Mage, for example. While I like the wing idea, I don't want it to force particular class choices.


I was assuming you'd still say "pick three cards" as the only restriction. So it just lets you use it if you want.
 
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scifiantihero wrote:
I was assuming you'd still say "pick three cards" as the only restriction. So it just lets you use it if you want.


No, I think leaving them just unrestricted makes it easier to build an interesting deck. Use them if you want, don't use them if you want. The "at least 3 out of 4" would only apply to the neutrals.
 
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perfalbion wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
I was assuming you'd still say "pick three cards" as the only restriction. So it just lets you use it if you want.


No, I think leaving them just unrestricted makes it easier to build an interesting deck. Use them if you want, don't use them if you want. The "at least 3 out of 4" would only apply to the neutrals.


I just meant "3 of 4 or 3 of 5" is strictly easier than "3 of 4"
 
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perfalbion wrote:
And I don't think I'd include the class cards in the restrictions. Makes life too weird ("must play class that matches the wing?" - eeech. "counts as your card for a wing?" - seems a bit harsh.).


Up to you, but it would add an extra wrinkle to the wing selection process that could be desirable (in so much as having to make tough decisions going into deck building is desirable). Although really none of the class cards are so incredible that you should feel like you need to play that wing anyway if you wanted to go with that class, with the potential exception of Dark Cultist. And other than keeping Reincarnate away from Thaddius decks there aren't any synergies depending upon this either. If anything that last one could be taken as a reason to keep them limited.
 
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So let's do what I normally do and poll the room:

Poll
I would prefer the following dust limit:
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
4000
20.0% 1
4500
0.0% 0
5000
80.0% 4
Something else I'll explain
0.0% 0
Voters 5
I'll play using the "pick a wing" rules for Naxx.
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Yes
87.5% 7
No
12.5% 1
Voters 8
I'll play if (please pick [two and only two] - keep in mind we may run multiple divisions):
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
We use the "pick a wing" Naxx rules suggested (3 out of 4 neutrals from one wing, no more than one non-legendary from all the others).
71.4% 5
We use the "pick a wing" Naxx rules, but if you want to use the Naxx class cards they have to come from the wing you select.
14.3% 1
We have a completely open format - no gimmicks.
57.1% 4
We have a lower dust limit - around 2000 like our first tournament.
14.3% 1
We add a twist that I haven't shared yet, but will post now.
14.3% 1
Voters 7
This poll is now closed.   8 answers
Poll created by perfalbion
Closes: Sun Sep 7, 2014 6:00 am


Important safety tip - while you can select all of the options for the second question - please only pick two. I'm not going to run more than two divisions, so I want a feel for what those might be. If everything converges on one answer, then that's one division. If two, then there's a good case for a second.
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I was recently thinking about rules for an arena tournament. I'm not sure if you'd be interested in running with that option, or if I should set up something else for it. I can post the rules I came up with if you're interested.
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fizzmore wrote:
I was recently thinking about rules for an arena tournament. I'm not sure if you'd be interested in running with that option, or if I should set up something else for it. I can post the rules I came up with if you're interested.


Post away. Whether we end up or using them or not is sort of irrelevant to having the discussion.
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Okay, so the basic plan is that first everyone goes and does arena. There's no way of enforcing this, but people should decide "this is going to be my tournament deck" before they enter. From there, they just draft their deck as usual, and then record the resulting deck...then play out the arena as they would otherwise.

Then, they build their deck according to what they drafted, with the following substitutions:

If they have drafted a card which is not in their collection, or they have more than two copies of a card, they may substitute a card of equal cost and equal or lesser rarity. If they have no card meeting these criteria, they may instead substitute a card of highest cost less than that of the card swapped out (still with equal or lesser rarity).

Once everyone has their deck, we play out the league as usual. If we want, we can have deck posted in advance along with substitutions made.
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