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One Night Ultimate Werewolf» Forums » Variants

Subject: Possible New Cards - Idiot, Maniac and Guard rss

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Patrick Ross
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Played endless sessions of this with kids and cousins during our weeklong family beach get together in San Diego.

We had a good brainstorming session about possible new cards. Here are the simplest attempts. None of these are playtested and could very well be disastrous.

The Idiot - Claims to be a werewolf.

The Maniac - Doesn't speak until someone asks his identity. Every time he is directly asked about his identity, he gives a different answer. He can never say he is the Maniac.

The Guard - This requires a second card (The Shield) which is set aside face down before night falls. When the Guard awakes, he replaces someone else's card with the Shield. That person is now protected from harm. The Guard is not allowed to look at the identity of the person they decided to protect.
 
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Nushura
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The idiot and the Maniac seem strange, since they have no effect ingame other than limiting to what the player can say. In general, one of the best things of the game is that you can lie/cajole/threaten/etc other people into believing your roles. But if you cannot stick to a lie because your role forces you to...then what is the point?
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Robert Stewart
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Nushura wrote:
The idiot and the Maniac seem strange, since they have no effect ingame other than limiting to what the player can say. In general, one of the best things of the game is that you can lie/cajole/threaten/etc other people into believing your roles. But if you cannot stick to a lie because your role forces you to...then what is the point?


Idiot and Maniac both offer cover for Werewolves.
 
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Patrick Ross
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I agree that those roles would be less fun, but given the game lasts only a couple of minutes, I didn't see a problem.
 
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D.M. Jones
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I agree with Nushura, I wouldn't like it if the roles limited what I could say. It takes away from the creative aspect of the game, which is what drives it. But I do like the idea of an 'idiot' role in the game that somehow helps the wolves (perhaps without intending to do so).

What if when the wolves wake up the idiot raises his/her hand. That way the wolves know who started with the idiot card. Then when the drunk wakes up to act the idiot raises his/hand again. I guess the idiot and the drunk are friends. The drunk may choose to change cards with the idiot INSTEAD of the middle. the drunk still does not check the card and the idiot doesn't check the card again either.

The win condition if the idiot is the same as a plain villager's.
 
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Stephen Williams
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getdafunkout wrote:

What if when the wolves wake up the idiot raises his/her hand. That way the wolves know who started with the idiot card. Then when the drunk wakes up to act the idiot raises his/hand again. I guess the idiot and the drunk are friends. The drunk may choose to change cards with the idiot INSTEAD of the middle. the drunk still does not check the card and the idiot doesn't check the card again either.


I'm not too keen on the idea of the Drunk being able to switch with the Idiot instead of the center. The reason being it's an extra layer of security against the Drunk turning evil.

Yes, I'm aware that the Idiot might have been switched by the TM, so the Drunk could still end up as a Werewolf, but it's that much less likely to happen, especially when the TM doesn't get to know who the Idiot is for their action. If I was Drunk and wanted to make sure I stayed good, I'd always switch with the Idiot. Sure, it might backfire, but the odds are much better, I think.

Here's what I'm thinking:
Village Idiot: The Idiot does not wake up during the night, but he keeps his thumb out the entire time, putting it away just before the Day Phase begins. The Idiot is on the villager team for lynching purposes, but he doesn't win with the villagers. The Idiot wins as long as he does not die, regardless of who else wins.

Some notes (good or bad, I haven't thought through yet):
- Everyone will know who the Idiot is, so he'll draw fire from role-swappers. This might give the Robber a big advantage since he swaps first.
- The Minion will be confused about how many werewolves there are. If he sees 3 thumbs, he knows one of them is the Idiot, but he can't be sure which.
- Doppelganger also has an advantage since she can look at the Idiot before there's been any chance of a role-swap. However, she has the same weakness as Idiot since her own role might get swapped.
- The Idiot will probably be saying whatever he can to avoid getting lynched, but since he doesn't have any bona fide info himself, he's mostly just guessing (apropos of a role called the Idiot, I think.) And of course there's a high chance he got swapped, so he of all people has to try and figure out if he's still himself.
 
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Dok Indigo
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Stewi wrote:
If I was Drunk and wanted to make sure I stayed good, I'd always switch with the Idiot. Sure, it might backfire, but the odds are much better, I think.

Yes, the odds are much better and it is much easier to figure out what new role you got. With "original" Drunk you only will get to know your role if there is a Seer in play and if that Seer looked at the card you took (and that Seer might be lying if you picked tanner or minion).
Quote:

Here's what I'm thinking:
Village Idiot: The Idiot does not wake up during the night, but he keeps his thumb out the entire time, putting it away just before the Day Phase begins. The Idiot is on the villager team for lynching purposes, but he doesn't win with the villagers. The Idiot wins as long as he does not die, regardless of who else wins.

Some notes (good or bad, I haven't thought through yet):
- Everyone will know who the Idiot is, so he'll draw fire from role-swappers. This might give the Robber a big advantage since he swaps first.
- The Minion will be confused about how many werewolves there are. If he sees 3 thumbs, he knows one of them is the Idiot, but he can't be sure which.
- Doppelganger also has an advantage since she can look at the Idiot before there's been any chance of a role-swap. However, she has the same weakness as Idiot since her own role might get swapped.
- The Idiot will probably be saying whatever he can to avoid getting lynched, but since he doesn't have any bona fide info himself, he's mostly just guessing (apropos of a role called the Idiot, I think.) And of course there's a high chance he got swapped, so he of all people has to try and figure out if he's still himself.


Almost everybody will know who the Idiot is. The Troublemaker can always tell to not kill the Idiot as he did not switch him, so that the Idiot helps the village. As a Troublemaker I see no benefit in switching the Idiot.

As a Robber I would probably always rob the Idiot as it changes my win condition to "don't die" which is much easier than the standard village win conditions. The Doppelgänger might for the same reason always copy the Idiot.
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D.M. Jones
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Hexendoktor wrote:
Stewi wrote:
If I was Drunk and wanted to make sure I stayed good, I'd always switch with the Idiot. Sure, it might backfire, but the odds are much better, I think.

Yes, the odds are much better and it is much easier to figure out what new role you got. With "original" Drunk you only will get to know your role if there is a Seer in play and if that Seer looked at the card you took (and that Seer might be lying if you picked tanner or minion).


Yeah, I don't disagree that adding the idiot as I suggested strengthens the drunk's control. But I don't see that as a bad thing as the drunk is probably my least favourite role. Also, I think it makes the drunk an even more attractive role for werewolves to claim. But hey, it was just a suggestion.



I am certainly open to other suggestions. I do like the core idea of 'an idiot' role being added, if for no other reason than I will be able to say, 'guess what guys... I am an idiot again!'
 
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D.M. Jones
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Stewi wrote:
getdafunkout wrote:

What if when the wolves wake up the idiot raises his/her hand. That way the wolves know who started with the idiot card. Then when the drunk wakes up to act the idiot raises his/hand again. I guess the idiot and the drunk are friends. The drunk may choose to change cards with the idiot INSTEAD of the middle. the drunk still does not check the card and the idiot doesn't check the card again either.


I'm not too keen on the idea of the Drunk being able to switch with the Idiot instead of the center. The reason being it's an extra layer of security against the Drunk turning evil.


What if the 'Idiot' were paired with another character called the 'Lout.' The Idiot is on the village team and the Lout is on the werewolf team. Both keep their eyes closed throughout the night phase and both raise their hand for the drunk to see. And again, the Drunk can pick from the center or take from one of these characters (and doesn't look).

Meh, maybe it is too fiddly. But this would take away that security you pointed out. I doubt they would fit into every role setup, but might make a nice change of pace for some setups.
 
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