Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Hive» Forums » General

Subject: fav expansion bugs? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
trevor

Missouri
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I know this has been asked before so I dont need a link to another thread. My wife picked this up for cheap and really enjoys it, then saw there are "expansion bugs".

My question is are they worth getting? Do any "break" the game in some way? Are any of them worthless?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarek Szczepanik
Norway
Oslo
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All expansions are great.

Mosquito is 'joker' bug which can mimic any piece it touches. Ladybug is a fast one - a good attacker and defender. Pillbug is the most interesting. It makes the game a little longer but adds more depth. I don't think they break the game. They just make Hive feel a little different, depending on which combination you add to the game. If you really enjoy the game and have played it a while, I recommend getting all three.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten K
Denmark
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Yes if you like the game you should definitely get them. They do not muddle it, they make it better
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Compulsive Completist
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PILLBUG > LADYBUG > MOSQUITO

But we like them all.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dashiell Pinar
France
Barnave
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ladybug and mosquito are in my base game (carbon edition) so i play with them from the begining and i can't play without them because i think it will be like it miss something for me like if you play chess without horses !!!

i never played the pillburg since i got it but don't had the time to play but i think it's almost or more interesting than ladybug and mosquito
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Ingersoll
United States
Port Orange
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that the basic game, with no expansion bugs, is the most challenging and my favorite. In my opinion, between equal players, White has a small advantage.

Add either the Mosquito or Ladybug and the complexity of the games goes up, as does the White advantage.

Add both the Mosquito and Ladybug and White's advantage increases much more.
----------------------
Now comes the Pillbug.

The Pillbug is by far, the most challenging bug in the hive. The complexity of the game increases dramatically with its inclusion. This may or may not be a good thing. (Some players like it, some do not.)

For beginners, it is much more difficult to beat an experienced player when playing with the Pillbug.

Add the Mosquito, with or without the Ladybug, and the complexity level skyrockets.

With the Pillbug, however, the White advantage seems to be greatly reduced.
------------------------
All of the above, of course, is just my humble opinion.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AbStrateGyk
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The complexity of the Pillbug is evident once it is introduced along with the Mosquito. As long as you have the house rule of the Mosquito not being able to mimic the special power of the Pillbug, I think it would make for a more interesting game without complicating it.

As far as i'm concerned, I only prefer the Mosquito to mimic the movements and not special abilities of pieces next to it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Abstracticon wrote:
The complexity of the Pillbug is evident once it is introduced along with the Mosquito. As long as you have the house rule of the Mosquito not being able to mimic the special power of the Pillbug, I think it would make for a more interesting game without complicating it.

As far as i'm concerned, I only prefer the Mosquito to mimic the movements and not special abilities of pieces next to it.

I've not heard of that house rule before; not sure I see the reasoning behind it...? Do you mean that you don't even let the mosquito climb onto the hive if it's next to a beetle?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarek Szczepanik
Norway
Oslo
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
Abstracticon wrote:
The complexity of the Pillbug is evident once it is introduced along with the Mosquito. As long as you have the house rule of the Mosquito not being able to mimic the special power of the Pillbug, I think it would make for a more interesting game without complicating it.

As far as i'm concerned, I only prefer the Mosquito to mimic the movements and not special abilities of pieces next to it.

I've not heard of that house rule before; not sure I see the reasoning behind it...? Do you mean that you don't even let the mosquito climb onto the hive if it's next to a beetle?


I remember having a similar discussion in the past. Actually, there's some misunderstanding regarding special abilities and movement characteristics of a given bug. The root of the problem is no definition for special ability. There are two types of 'special abilities' bugs can have, which differ considerably:

(i) special ability that is a part of bug's movement (e.g. Beetle's climbing or Hopper's hopping)

(ii) special ability that is performed INSTEAD of or IN ADDITION to moving (such as Pillbug's moving other figures, Dragonfly's transporting or Mantis' removing pieces, Scorpion's flipping) and IS NOT a part of bug's movement

For me (and for Abstracticon I guess), only (ii) should be regarded special ability. (i) is just a part of bug's movement characteristics. The rules for Mosquito say nothing about copying special abilities, and mention movement characteristics only. The Pillbug was the first official bug with special ability sensu (ii). John Yianni has decided to allow the M copy both movement and special ability of the Pillbug.

And the reason behind not allowing the M to copy special abilities is always the same: it probably gets too powerful. Some people see it as a problem, others argue that even though the M gets more power, both players have one Mosquito.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Calvin Daniels
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Love Hive but only play it with all the expansions, and will add any new official bug since , in my mind, they add depth.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean West
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm in the minority here but personally I don't think the expansion bugs add much to the game and I prefer to play without them.

I learned to play with the ladybug and mosquito because they came with the Hive Pocket version of the game that I have. I have played more games with them than without but I now usually take them out of the game before we start.

I find that rather than adding something unique, they instead are just combinations of pieces that already exist. I feel they add unnecessary complexity and confusion that, for me, detracts from the tactical/strategic nature of the base game.

I haven't played with the Pillbug but I've also had no desire to. That piece seems to be the most gimicky of all and I really prefer the simple, chess-like nature of the base game.

Anyway, that's my experience. Clearly, from the other responses here YMMV.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AbStrateGyk
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
Abstracticon wrote:
The complexity of the Pillbug is evident once it is introduced along with the Mosquito. As long as you have the house rule of the Mosquito not being able to mimic the special power of the Pillbug, I think it would make for a more interesting game without complicating it.

As far as i'm concerned, I only prefer the Mosquito to mimic the movements and not special abilities of pieces next to it.

I've not heard of that house rule before; not sure I see the reasoning behind it...? Do you mean that you don't even let the mosquito climb onto the hive if it's next to a beetle?


Exactly what Svartisen said, therefore, the Mosquito can copy the Beetles top-of-Hive movement. The Beetle being able to move atop the Hive is a special movement (the Hopper actually moves atop the Hive except that it doesn't stay there but ends on the ground). The Pillbug being able to move other pieces next to it is a special ability because that ability has nothing to do with its own movement.

Which brings me to another point that has been discussed before, the movement of the Mosquito atop the Hive. It has been argued that because the M is not touching anything around it on top of the Hive, then it should be immobile unless another Beetle (or top-of-Hive piece) touches it, because that's how it can mimic movements. Frankly, I prefer it that way because it reduces its power and also I think it doesn't skew (in favor of the 1st player) the balance of the game. So I created my own house rules with the Mosquito when playing with friends.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Abstracticon wrote:
Which brings me to another point that has been discussed before, the movement of the Mosquito atop the Hive. It has been argued that because the M is not touching anything around it on top of the Hive,

How? I'd argue the opposite: it's clearly touching neighbors.
Height does not matter, since we already know a mosquito on the ground can copy a neighboring beetle on top of the hive: literal physical touching is not relevant, just hexgrid adjacency as seen from above.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AbStrateGyk
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
Abstracticon wrote:
Which brings me to another point that has been discussed before, the movement of the Mosquito atop the Hive. It has been argued that because the M is not touching anything around it on top of the Hive,

How? I'd argue the opposite: it's clearly touching neighbors.
Height does not matter, since we already know a mosquito on the ground can copy a neighboring beetle on top of the hive: literal physical touching is not relevant, just hexgrid adjacency as seen from above.


If that is the case then the Mosquito when on top of the hive, can mimic any piece below that is adjacent to it. That would be too powerful. Nope, not in my house.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten K
Denmark
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Abstracticon wrote:
russ wrote:
Abstracticon wrote:
Which brings me to another point that has been discussed before, the movement of the Mosquito atop the Hive. It has been argued that because the M is not touching anything around it on top of the Hive,

How? I'd argue the opposite: it's clearly touching neighbors.
Height does not matter, since we already know a mosquito on the ground can copy a neighboring beetle on top of the hive: literal physical touching is not relevant, just hexgrid adjacency as seen from above.


If that is the case then the Mosquito when on top of the hive, can mimic any piece below that is adjacent to it. That would be too powerful. Nope, not in my house.


Not if you think that it needs a beetle to move on top as that is the only piece that can do so
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Abstracticon wrote:
russ wrote:
Abstracticon wrote:
Which brings me to another point that has been discussed before, the movement of the Mosquito atop the Hive. It has been argued that because the M is not touching anything around it on top of the Hive,

How? I'd argue the opposite: it's clearly touching neighbors.
Height does not matter, since we already know a mosquito on the ground can copy a neighboring beetle on top of the hive: literal physical touching is not relevant, just hexgrid adjacency as seen from above.


If that is the case then the Mosquito when on top of the hive, can mimic any piece below that is adjacent to it. That would be too powerful. Nope, not in my house.

No, I'm not proposing that: the official real rules are that a mosquito on top simply moves as a beetle. Which seems simple & clear & works fine. I see no reason for house rules at all here.

My point was simply that it's already established that hexgrid, not physical touching, adjacency is relevant. (Just like for placing a new piece; the color of the top neighbor matters, not the color of the physically touching neighbor.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AbStrateGyk
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tigrillo wrote:
Abstracticon wrote:
russ wrote:

How? I'd argue the opposite: it's clearly touching neighbors.
Height does not matter, since we already know a mosquito on the ground can copy a neighboring beetle on top of the hive: literal physical touching is not relevant, just hexgrid adjacency as seen from above.


If that is the case then the Mosquito when on top of the hive, can mimic any piece below that is adjacent to it. That would be too powerful. Nope, not in my house.


Not if you think that it needs a beetle to move on top as that is the only piece that can do so


It is established that you need the Beetle next to it in order for the Mosquito to move on top of the Hive, Russ' point is that vertical adjacency does not matter when mimicking pieces. His argument's flaw is that whether a piece is above or below the hive, a M can mimic it from any level. That also means that if a Mosquito is 2, 3, or 4 levels up the hive, it can mimic any piece below that is surrounding it. Of course that is not the actual rule as he pointed out above, just stating a flaw in his argument.

Anyway, it's just a house rule, anyone can make up their own house rules to make the game more challenging, interesting, and competitive. Of course, when introducing the game to newbies, you teach them the actual rules of the game. Then later, you can establish your own house rules. Like when playing Monopoly, when players use the popular Free Parking jackpot rule, all the money collected from Income Tax, Luxury Tax, Chance and Community Chest goes to the center of the board instead of the bank, and the first player to land on the Free Parking space gets all the loot. It's a pretty good payout for a space originally intended to have no action associated with it -- which is the whole problem.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Abstracticon wrote:
Russ' point is that vertical adjacency does not matter when mimicking pieces. His argument's flaw is that whether a piece is above or below the hive, a M can mimic it from any level. That also means that if a Mosquito is 2, 3, or 4 levels up the hive, it can mimic any piece below that is surrounding it. Of course that is not the actual rule as he pointed out above, just stating a flaw in his argument.

You misunderstood me; I was not saying that a mosquito on a piece can or should copy neighbors! There was no argument of that nature to even have a flaw.

I was simply saying that neighbor is already clearly defined by top adjacent piece as seen from above, not by physically touching adjacent piece. This was in response to you semtence "It has been argued that because the M is not touching anything around it on top of the Hive" - I was pointing out that "touching" does not mean "on the same level" in Hive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.