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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about bumping into other ships. rss

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Matthew Hinerman
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Okay. Short version - I understand how everything except how to *exactly* place ships that you've moved that would overlap other ships.

Once you realize that they are going to overlap, you move the ship backward using the rear pegs until the front of the ship clears and is on the table. Got it.

Now here is the root of my question - at what angle is the ship placed?

Because it says to use the rear pegs, I've been playing it where the rear of the ship template must make a 90 degree angle with the template in question. If it's a turn, you use the inside edge. To me this makes sense as it swings the ship around in a natural progression, and you're going from 90 degrees at the start to 90 degrees at the end.

However, I was watching a game that was streamed over Twitch and played with Vassel (Galactic Cup) when I noticed they did something VERY different: http://www.twitch.tv/sozinsky/b/553295525 (@40:35). I understand I'm not sure why there was need for an extension there, or why they lined up the front pegs at all. With how it plays in the video, it seems to act as if the ship turns on a dime, then would move straight into it's final position.

So... what's the verdict here people? Thanks for anything that may help to me understanding this game a bit more!
 
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Andreas Krüger
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I think most players do about the same as you, but probably with less precision to keep the game moving. In the video, they also align the ship at an angle between the starting and the intended final angle.

It looks like vassal has a script for the ship movement which first turns the ship and then moves it to the final position. This is convenient for programming, but you would not do that on the real table.
 
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Guido Gloor
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The Vassal way seems to be how the players here did it. It works a treat for everything except sharp 1-turns, IMHO - and for sharp 1-turns, it's still reasonable, and above all, exact - and for Vassal, which is very exact otherwise, that's a huge benefit. What they do is, they align both the front and the back pegs with the maneuver template. If the pegs are outside the template, they just extend it with straights.

I've made some screenies.

2 bank with the method you propose (if I understood you correctly):


Essentially, the ship flies straight forward until its back pegs meet the maneuver template. The front pegs swivel around to the right of the template. It might work though.

2 bank with the Vassal method:


The ship starts to turn immediately, and doesn't stop turning until the maneuver is over. A very nice bank IMHO. The center of the ship is very slightly to the left of the maneuver templates during the bank, but not enough to make me bother.

The situation is slightly different with a sharp 1 turn:

1 turn with the method you propose:


The ship flies straight forward, until it turns on a dime with the front of the ship moving way sideways. This doesn't work for me at all.

1 turn with the Vassal method:


The ship has a nice turn from start to finish, and I can perfectly imagine a ship flying like that. In fact, I might adopt this for my games, now that you've made me aware of the difference. So far though, we've played it differently:


We've had the ship fly forward until its center meets the turn maneuver template, then had it turn with the center of the base centered on the template. This makes for a three-part move instead of just a one-part move, but doesn't move the center of the ship off the maneuver template "path" at any point.

I'll have a talk with my friends about adopting the Vassal method in our games - so thanks a lot for this thread! But I wouldn't want to use the back pegs.
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Matthew Hinerman
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Wow!! Thanks for the visuals, those look great!

I think they also do an awesome job of showing the differences in the methods. For instance, they show that the Vassal method brings the firing arc to bear MUCH quicker than my method (which is one of the problems I have with it).

For instance, in your first set of pictures (with the 2 bank), my method would allow approx. the same fire arc at the 4th position as the 3rd position of the Vassal method. If you look at the difference the ship has traveled in the maneuver, however, it appears that the Vassal method would allow this at around a 1 distance FASTER than my method.


While looking up something in the rule book just now, I've noticed that the rule reads:

"1. From the opposite end of the template, move the active ship backward along the top of the template until it no longer overlaps another ship. While moving the ship, adjust it so that the template remains centered between both sets of guides on the ship's base. Place the ship so that the bases of both ships are touching." (page 17 - Overlapping other ships)

So it appears that the Vassal method is indeed correct! Hopefully this post will help others notice this if they haven't already. Thanks again for your responses!
 
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Jesse Rasmussen
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Sorry to take this question into a slightly different direction...but I'm a new player and when I saw this thread title I thought this was perfect because I've had my own question about bumping into other ships. I'm so new I didn't even know that the OP question was a question, so thank you for asking it!!

My question is a lot more simple.

If an X-Wing flies into a TIE fighter, I move the X-Wing back along the template until they are touching but not overlapping. Got it. The X-Wing loses his action. The X-Wing cannot attack the TIE Fighter. I think I have all of this right so far. So here's my question:

1) Can the X-Wing attack a TIE fighter who is further away? Or is his entire attack lost?

2) Are there any penalties to the TIE fighter that got run into? Can he still take his action and attack normally? Could he attack the X-Wing who ran into him if he was facing the right way?

Thanks for any help with this!
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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1) you can attack other ships that you are not currently 'overlapping'.
2) No, (edit: but ships that are touching / overlapping can not shoot each other). You either bumped before the TIE's maneuver, in which case the TIE moves and performs the action if applicable, or you bumped after the TIE moved and already had its action if applicable. Thematically, you did not actually run into it, you avoided the collision, but it took all of your concentration, thus no action. (If you are on top of each other, you can not shoot each other.)
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Andreas Krüger
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a1bert wrote:
1) you can attack other ships that you are not currently 'overlapping'.
2) No. You either bumped before the TIE's maneuver, in which case the TIE moves and performs the action if applicable, or you bumped after the TIE moved and already had its action if applicable. Thematically, you did not actually run into it, you avoided the collision, but it took all of your concentration, thus no action.


2. The Tie cannot attack the X-Wing as long as both ships are touching.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
2. The Tie cannot attack the X-Wing as long as both ships are touching.

Thanks, I somehow missed that part of the question.

I just wanted to add a note that touching does not (necessarily) mean physically touching. Touching has a special meaning of having been overlapped on the current round. If you bump a ship, and both ships perform the same maneuver (to the same direction) on the next round (without bumping), they may be physically touching, but are not touching in the game-mechanism sense, because they did not overlap during that round.
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Jesse Rasmussen
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Wonderful! Thanks for the clarification. I understand all the other stuff you talked about but I don't understand this part:

Quote:
I just wanted to add a note that touching does not (necessarily) mean physically touching. Touching has a special meaning of having been overlapped on the current round. If you bump a ship, and both ships perform the same maneuver (to the same direction) on the next round (without bumping), they may be physically touching, but are not touching in the game-mechanism sense, because they did not overlap during that round.
 
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Matt Asher
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rasmussen81 wrote:
Wonderful! Thanks for the clarification. I understand all the other stuff you talked about but I don't understand this part:

Quote:
I just wanted to add a note that touching does not (necessarily) mean physically touching. Touching has a special meaning of having been overlapped on the current round. If you bump a ship, and both ships perform the same maneuver (to the same direction) on the next round (without bumping), they may be physically touching, but are not touching in the game-mechanism sense, because they did not overlap during that round.


Let's say a TIE and X are facing the same direction and in a straight line, TIE in front.
1) The TIE moves 2 straight, takes actions, etc.
2) The X moves 3 straight, which would cause him to bump the TIE. So he loses his action and cannot shoot at that TIE.
Next turn
3) the TIE moves 2 straight and takes actions.
4) The X moves 2 straight - and this is where they may be physically touching (usually the little nubs on the front/back) but the X didn't bump the TIE this turn, as they chose the same maneuver. X takes his actions.

I think that is about the only scenario where the near-touch on the 2nd round happens - it seems pretty rare. However if, on the second move, the TIE bumps:
1) The TIE moves 2 straight, but bumps some other ship so loses his action.
2) then the X moves 2 straight, but bumps the TIE again so loses his action.
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FAQ, p8 is the reference for Overlapping Inline Ships.

This knowledge can also be used as a technique to tighten up a formation, btw. Intentionally pick maneuvers that will overlap in an early round when actions won't matter and you'll be moving straight the next round to collapse the flight. Can't recall exactly, but someone did this with a swarm in either Worlds or GenCon finals as seen on TC's Youtube channel.

Just above that on p8 is the bit about "nubs" counting for everything except measuring range.

This might be a bit nitpicky, but I've heard people talking about this regarding a B/W 2K starting from overlapping a large ship... The large ship base is the same size as the 2 template, but the nubs on the B, and/or the large ship, add too much to complete the K-turn. Same would go for Tetran 1K'ing around a small base, I suppose.

Cheers.
 
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