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BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: Chess Redone? rss

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Rik Van Horn
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Here's an article about "fixing" chess. Thoughts?
http://www.popmatters.com/post/184641-fixing-chess-one-game-...
 
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Gary Selkirk
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No! Chess is chess. You can use various historical pieces to represent the originals, but the basic game of chess should remain the same as it has been for the last several thousand years.
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Bryan Thunkd
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Uh... they call this a variant... but there are enough changes in this that it's a different game at this point. Interesting, but not chess.
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I don't think chess is broken, except that some people have become really good at it and they way they play against each other might make it seem that way.

Chess 2 is not all that new in itself, and has such a horrendously generic name that it is easy to get buried amongst all the other chess variants. I'm not convinced that the different armies are all well balanced against each other, although they would make for dramatically different games with a lot of variety. I think I'd prefer something more like Shuuro when it comes to mixing up chess for the sake of variety, without getting bogged down with trying to remember so many new rules.
 
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Russ Williams
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FWIW there are zillions of chess variants...

We found Shogi to be quite excellent and more fun for us than modern Western chess.

For modern variants, Tile Chess and Alice Chess and Essentia are some cool ones I've enjoyed.



LINCSANDWINKS wrote:
No! Chess is chess. You can use various historical pieces to represent the originals, but the basic game of chess should remain the same as it has been for the last several thousand years.

"the same as it has been for the last several thousand years"?

(not sure if serious...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chess
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Larry Levy
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My first thought is that there are few people as prone to self-promotion as "Famed Game Designer" David Sirlin.

My second thought is that the last way I would have tried to "fix" chess is to introduce bluffing into it! yuk
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Mc Jarvis
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Larry Levy wrote:

My second thought is that the last way I would have tried to "fix" chess is to introduce bluffing into it! yuk


This.

In addition, when I did check out Chess 2 about a year and a half ago, there were still major imbalances in the armies. I don't think Sirlin's testgroup is good enough at chess-like games to really get the balance right, though I'd be pleased to be proven wrong.
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Wim van Gruisen
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I love it when a newbie encounters a game, doesn't really understand it and then goes on to propose fixes to things that don't need fixing.

You know, when people who lost a game blame it on the game's 'randomness' or 'faulty mechanics' and propose 'solutions' to what they see as problems. While people who understand that game see the randomness as something that can be controlled and the faulty mechanics as actually functioning well. And recognising that the proposed 'solutions' will make the game far less interesting than it is.


If you want chess to be less about memorisation, try the variant that Fisher suggested decades ago: players can place their pieces on the last row in any place on that last row that they want. Suddenly opening theory is worthless and it all comes down to skill.
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josh willhite
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Speaking of chess variants...

Wish someone would figure out a way to make a marketable Klin Zhaset (Klingon Chess) soblue

While we're at it make a Kotra board as well (Cardassian backgammon). There's no entry for it here on BGG (there's a Kotra, but it's not the game I'm talking about)
 
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Christian Kalk
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I agree that any major change to Chess either hurts the game, or results in a game that is not "Chess". Like it or not, centuries of study of the tactical situation in the opening, or Middle or End Game theory are part of ehat makes the game what it is.

If someone has issues with Chess, their best option is to either play one ofthe multitude of "Chess-like" games out there (Stratego is a great option for someone who prefers asymmetry and imperfect information), or to design a completely new game with all the desirable properties of Chess, but non of the undesirable ones. Then be prepared to "patch" the hell out of it once people start giving it some serious study and reveal ways in which the game is not balanced.

But please don't call it "Chess".
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Christopher Dearlove
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Rokkr wrote:
Here's an article about "fixing" chess. Thoughts?
http://www.popmatters.com/post/184641-fixing-chess-one-game-...


Sirlin's an over-inflated self-promoter (not for the first or I'm sure last time) who is trying to push not just another chess variant but a very poor one. He'll get nowhere with it. Chess has its flaws, but it didn't get to where it is without some seriously good features that it evolved.

And that's from someone who essentially doesn't play.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Larry Levy wrote:
My first thought is that there are few people as prone to self-promotion as "Famed Game Designer" David Sirlin.

My second thought is that the last way I would have tried to "fix" chess is to introduce bluffing into it! yuk


I hadn't seen that when I wrote my comment. Larry is essentially making my points before me and better. Oh, well.
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Pas L
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Chess is - some special exception rules aside - a brilliant design and doesn't need to be fixed.

It's no Go, though.

Tangent: Are there themed Go sets? replace the stones with little army figures and keep score with some sort of over-designed 'casualty wheel'? I've not seen them around, and Go is a tricky game to google.
 
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wayne r
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Rokkr wrote:
Here's an article about "fixing" chess. Thoughts?
http://www.popmatters.com/post/184641-fixing-chess-one-game-...


If you look at the games he has designed (they are pretty fun games!), you'll notice he doesn't like perfect symmetry in games. He considers them a flaw.

I think chess is perfect as is. If I wanted a more asymmetrical chess like game, I would pull out my Navia Drapt game. If I wanted to change up what the chess pieces do, I would play Chaos Chess.

His answer sounds like the chess variant that Sheldon from Big Bang Theory came up with---unnecessary complications.
 
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Russ Williams
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Whymme wrote:
If you want chess to be less about memorisation, try the variant that Fisher suggested decades ago: players can place their pieces on the last row in any place on that last row that they want. Suddenly opening theory is worthless and it all comes down to skill.

Not quite; Chess 960 uses a randomized symmetric setup.

(I wonder if you are possibly mixing it up with the quasi-chess-variant Arimaa, which does use player-choice setup for each side.)
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Will

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEpi9qAfRaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsaAkNXAzak
 
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Wim van Gruisen
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russ wrote:
Not quite; Chess 960 uses a randomized symmetric setup.

(I wonder if you are possibly mixing it up with the quasi-chess-variant Arimaa, which does use player-choice setup for each side.)

Not mixing it up. I heard about Fisher Random, but clearly not enough. I thought that both parties could place their pieces stratego-like, each player without seeing the other player's deployment.

Funny, though, that Chess 960 has been developed before Chess 2.
 
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