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BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: Gaming Terminology? rss

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Bryan Thunkd
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1. Steep learning curve games

2. I usually see this in the form of a technology tree, where you must discover lower level techs to research higher level techs. I don't think there's a name for it in a general form.
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Russ Williams
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Thunkd wrote:
1. Steep learning curve games

What are the axes on which that steep curve is being drawn?
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Cameron Rouse
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Understanding and Time, maybe?
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Russ Williams
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cazaron wrote:
Understanding and Time, maybe?

Understanding as a function of time? Then a steep curve means rapid learning.

Time as a function of understanding? Then that would be an unusual graph (usually time is the independent variable)...
 
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russ wrote:
cazaron wrote:
Understanding and Time, maybe?

Understanding as a function of time? Then a steep curve means rapid learning.

Time as a function of understanding? Then that would be an unusual graph (usually time is the independent variable)...

I think this is a case where the idiom has taken on a different and opposite meaning than its literal interpretation.
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Walt
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1. "Lifestyle games". You have to make it part of you life to be good playing it. Examples: Chess, Go, Scrabble.

2. "Leveling". You have to go through each level to get to the next.
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Leander Van Reeth
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russ wrote:
cazaron wrote:
Understanding and Time, maybe?

Understanding as a function of time? Then a steep curve means rapid learning.

Time as a function of understanding? Then that would be an unusual graph (usually time is the independent variable)...


Maybe Success (or Success rate, if you prefer) as a function of Understanding or time. I imagine Success Rate values staying close to zero for a while, until a certain value is reached for Understanding (usually achieved by playing the game multiple times), when the success rate goes up by a large amount.
Here, I made a totally scientific drawing of the learning curve:

(first time I post a picture on BGG, I hope this works)
 
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Eric Nolan
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I agree. It is skill or effectiveness over time. Some games have a shallow or non-existent learning curve where you are basically as good a player in your first game as your hundredth. Others have a steep learning curve where cannot be effective at all in your first game, or your second, or your third. Perhaps by the time you are playing your hundredth game you can call yourself good at the game.

The best, in my opinion, is a game in which the slope of the curve changes. For example on in which you spend the first couple of games understanding the basics and then are a competent player and the next ninety eight slowly mastering the game.

Here's an example of different curves found on the internet:

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Andi Hub
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russ wrote:
cazaron wrote:
Understanding and Time, maybe?

Understanding as a function of time? Then a steep curve means rapid learning.

Time as a function of understanding? Then that would be an unusual graph (usually time is the independent variable)...

Yup, understanding in dependence of time. Absolute understanding, not relative. So if a game is complex (or rather deep) you have to learn quite a bit more. If the learning curve is steep (which usually means for the first couple of plays only), it is very exhausting to learn all this new information (and still try to play the game well). So the analogy to climbing a steep mountain slope holds.

But I have to say that steep learning curve often gets associated with the game needing a high absolute understanding to play well. Very good complex games still have a rising slope after the first couple of plays.

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Bryan Carpenter
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ringo84 wrote:
So the analogy to climbing a steep mountain slope holds.


This is what I always thought the phrase meant, rather than any literal mathematical interpretation. It's steep so it's hard to get to the top but once you're there then things are good.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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russ wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
1. Steep learning curve games

What are the axes on which that steep curve is being drawn?
Effort and understanding?
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Andrew Bartosh

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korxonthos wrote:
I'm not sure if there are specific terms for the following phenomenon, but I would certainly like to know if there are:

1. Games that are most enjoyable at high levels of play but are intimidating, confusing, or both to beginner or even intermediate players. Are these known as Nirvana games, since it takes "enlightenment" to enjoy the countless hours of bliss they provide?


Games with steep learning curves is indeed correct, as other people have answered.

Quote:
2. Mechanics which force players to get lower-level options to get higher-level options as opposed to being able to pay for those options directly with in-game currency. For instance, to get the a Level 3 unit, you must already have a Level 2 unit which must have been promoted from a Level 1 unit. Or, to get a higher-level tech, you must have two techs of one tier "beneath" it. Is this known as tier-gating or level-gating?


Also as stated, this one depends entirely on the presentation. Tech tree is pretty common though. Level-gating is used for a different concept (you must reach level X to be able to access the thing).
 
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Will Yum
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Thunkd wrote:
1. Steep learning curve games

2. I usually see this in the form of a technology tree, where you must discover lower level techs to research higher level techs. I don't think there's a name for it in a general form.


For the first concept, here is a good explanation I found.

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/6209/what-is-mean...

For the second one, I propose upgrades or upgrading. Like the buildings in Terra Mystica.

 
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Andi Hub
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Thunkd wrote:
russ wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
1. Steep learning curve games

What are the axes on which that steep curve is being drawn?
Effort and understanding?

Little effort, much understanding? Nah, does not fit what most call "steep learning curve".
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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ringo84 wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
russ wrote:
What are the axes on which that steep curve is being drawn?

Effort and understanding?

Little effort, much understanding? Nah, does not fit what most call "steep learning curve".

It is effort and understanding; Thunkd means understanding on the X axis, and effort on the Y axis:

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Andi Hub
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kuhrusty wrote:
ringo84 wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
russ wrote:
What are the axes on which that steep curve is being drawn?

Effort and understanding?

Little effort, much understanding? Nah, does not fit what most call "steep learning curve".

It is effort and understanding; Thunkd means understanding on the X axis, and effort on the Y axis:

As Russ said above, you typically put the independent variable or input on the x-axis and the dependent or the output on the y-axis. The captions on the effort axis are also neither more of the same or any natural progression.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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ringo84 wrote:
As Russ said above, you typically put the independent variable or input on the x-axis and the dependent or the output on the y-axis.

Of course. But you typically think of Monopoly, Risk, and Candyland when you hear "boardgames"; we're special here.

ringo84 wrote:
The captions on the effort axis are also neither more of the same or any natural progression.

See, it sounds like you're questioning the science behind that graph. I mean, I know you're not, because that graph was part of a paper my colleagues and I published in the peer-reviewed September-October 2012 Journal of Scientific Research and Reports, but I'm just saying, man, with that tone it really sounds like you are.
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Bryan Thunkd
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ringo84 wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
russ wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
1. Steep learning curve games

What are the axes on which that steep curve is being drawn?
Effort and understanding?

Little effort, much understanding? Nah, does not fit what most call "steep learning curve".
Uh... The curve is steep... So to progress along the x axis, understanding, you have to go very high on the y axis, effort.
 
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Ian Taylor
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Tall_Walt wrote:
1. "Lifestyle games". You have to make it part of you life to be good playing it. Examples: Chess, Go, Scrabble.

I think Lifestyle Game usually means something different. While people use phrases in different ways of course, I usually see Lifestyle Game used to mean a game that people tend to play at the expense of all others, either for reasons of cost, time investment or the fact that it appeals to a unique demographic. This is in contrast to games that people own and play just as one part of their games collection.

Magic is usually cited as the poster child Lifestyle Game.
 
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