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Owen Compton
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Does it's Command ability affect it's own attacks?

The card says "Each minion within 3 spaces of this monster" - red monsters are Masters and the tan ones are Minions so is it definitely only minions or do other masters (and the Master Beastman itself) benefit?

Also, the OL equips each Lieutenant with up to one relic before each quest. If I equip Bones of Woe to a Lieutenant that isn't in the first encounter (but is in the second), do I gain the benefit during the first encounter?

Lastly, Zombies get a brown die as defence in Act I. They get the same in Act II, pretty much everything else gets an upgrade, similarly minion zombies don't get an attack upgrade, this seems odd seeing as most other monsters get an upgrade* but I'm guessing it's correct?

* On this topic, I found Flesh Moulders got quite a bit stronger but I've only done one Act II quest so far.
 
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The Sacred Voice wrote:
Does it's Command ability affect it's own attacks?

The card says "Each minion within 3 spaces of this monster" - red monsters are Masters and the tan ones are Minions so is it definitely only minions or do other masters (and the Master Beastman itself) benefit?


Are you serious? I mean, it's obvious from the way you word your own question you know the answer to this. No, "Minion" does not mean "Minion or Master."

The Sacred Voice wrote:

Also, the OL equips each Lieutenant with up to one relic before each quest. If I equip Bones of Woe to a Lieutenant that isn't in the first encounter (but is in the second), do I gain the benefit during the first encounter?


No, if there is no Lieutenant there, you can't use the relic. This is a major reason that OL relics are much weaker than hero relics.


The Sacred Voice wrote:

Lastly, Zombies get a brown die as defence in Act I. They get the same in Act II, pretty much everything else gets an upgrade, similarly minion zombies don't get an attack upgrade, this seems odd seeing as most other monsters get an upgrade* but I'm guessing it's correct?

* On this topic, I found Flesh Moulders got quite a bit stronger but I've only done one Act II quest so far.


Different monsters get different upgrades. Some monsters are stronger in one act or the other; some get bigger upgrades than others. (Arachyura is a good example - it gets virtually no upgrades between acts. The Master Ettin actually gets a DOWNGRADE to one of his abilities between acts.) Zombies only get +2 health between acts as a defensive boost, true, but the group gets a total of +11 health overall, a significant boost. Defensively, Zombies likely make out better than Flesh Moulders between acts - depends on whether the heroes are likely to be able to 1-shot them when they face them. A brown die is worth 2/3 of a shield per attack; +1 HP and an extra brown die will, in many situations, be worse than 2 HP.
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Owen Compton
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amoshias wrote:
The Sacred Voice wrote:
Also, the OL equips each Lieutenant with up to one relic before each quest. If I equip Bones of Woe to a Lieutenant that isn't in the first encounter (but is in the second), do I gain the benefit during the first encounter?
No, if there is no Lieutenant there, you can't use the relic. This is a major reason that OL relics are much weaker than hero relics.


I agree with pretty much everything else you said but this one I disagree with. I can't find anything in the FAQ to indicate that this is so and re-reading the rulebook section on it strongly implies the opposite. For reference:

Rulebook, page 22 wrote:
The overlord version of a relic may be wielded by any lieutenant, and this is the only way the relic's abilities can be used by the overlord. If the overlord has no lieutenant in a given quest, or if he opts to leave his relic behind (see below), he receives no benefit for the relic's abilities. Each lieutenant can wield only one relic.

During the setup step of each quest, the overlord choose which relic (if any) each of his lieutenants wields during the quest. Place the chosen Relic card next to the Lieutenant card. If the relic is not wielded by a lieutenant, the overlord keeps the card near his Overlord deck and its abilities are ignored during this quest. If a lieutenant wielding a relic is defeated during a quest, the abilities of that relic are ignored for the remainder of the quest but the overlord keeps the relic.


I have emphasised the sections I want to discuss.

The scenario I am basing this discussion on is as follows: I am playing a quest in which there is one lieutenant participating and they feature in encounter one but not in encounter two (though if you think it affects the outcome then imagine the lieutenant appears in encounter two but not one). I have two relics: Bones of Woe and Duskblade.

During quest setup I assign Bones of Woe to my one participating lieutenant. I cannot assign Duskblade to another lieutenant as there are no more in either encounter that make up the quest. I cannot assign Duskblade to my participating lieutenant as he already has Bones of Woe.

I then do encounter setup for the first encounter and place my monster groups, without my lieutenant as he is only in encounter two.

During the first encounter then I obviously gain the benefit of Bones of Woe (roll blue die each turn, draw an extra OL card on a surge). However I believe that this advantage extends into the second encounter, even though the lieutenant is no longer present. My evidence for this is the use of the phrase "If a lieutenant wielding a relic is defeated during a quest, the abilities of that relic are ignored for the remainder of the quest" - this implies that the relic is always active during the whole quest and not just the encounter the lieutenant is in. So if the lieutenant appeared in encounter one but not encounter two then the effect of the relic would persist into that encounter UNLESS the lieutenant was killed in encounter one.

Assuming that it works across both encounters (even where the lieutenant is absent from encounter two) then by the same logic then I would gain the bonus from Bones of Woe in encounter one of a quest where the lieutenant only appears in encounter two.

Note that this scenario applies only to the Bones of Woe and Staff of Shadows relics because the other base game OL relics are all items that modify a lieutenants direct attack or defence so wouldn't be any use without the lieutenant on the map in the first place.
 
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While - as an attorney - I definitely appreciate your commitment to trying to stretch the rules text as far as it can you, I think you know your interpretation just doesn't make sense. I'll put the blame squarely on FFG's shoulders; they are absolutely terrible at writing rules, and the confusion you're willing to create here is obviously their fault.

The rulebook clearly should say "Encounter", not quest; the rules tend to use the terms interchangeably when they're obviously not. Let's look at one section you quoted:

"During the setup step of each quest, the overlord choose which relic (if any) each of his lieutenants wields during the quest."

Related to that, overlord setup step two is called "perform quest setup." Here, you "refer[s] to the "Setup" section of the chosen quest. . ." However, multi-encounter quests have no setup rules. Encounters do. The only time there is a "quest setup" section is in single-encounter quests.

What the rules SHOULD say, virtually everywhere I looked at where they say quest, is encounter - and single-encounter quests should be labelled "encounter 1." But, again, FFG has no idea what they are doing. So they use their own terms confusingly and wrong.

On top of that, nothing in the game suggests that you need to read Encounter 2 of a mission before playing Encounter 1. I - and many others - explicitly avoid doing this. According to your reading it would be required... yet the rules never say a thing about it.


Again, let me say, I think you've found a clever failure in the rules, but the only thing you're showing is that FFG is terrible at writing clear and consistent rules. It's obvious - I assume to you, as well - that your reading of the rules is a fairly silly stretch.
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