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Red7» Forums » Rules

Subject: Request for testing on a new rule rss

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Chris Cieslik
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Hello! We've been gathering a lot of feedback on Red, and we like listening to feedback, because it makes for a better game. We're considering the following change to Advanced Red:

Instead of: "You cannot discard a card unless it is at least as high as the number of cards in your palette"

We are thinking: "If you discard a card that is higher than the quantity of cards in your palette, draw a card."

The goal with the rule was to both make running out of cards less random/less likely, and also to make the choice of which order to play things more interesting -- not always throwing your lowest cards away to change a rule and playing your highest ones. We think this might accomplish the same goals, but with a little less frustration and more fun!

The important existing rule to emphasize here is that you cannot discard a card unless it makes you win (so you can't discard a high card in the hope of getting a card to play).

Edit: Fixed to > instead of >=
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James Nathan
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Is the play and/or discard order strict? Can I discard to change the rule AND THEN play a card to my palette? If I can discard first, do I have to be winning immediately, or can I play my card and then check to see if I'm winning?

That is:

Scenario A: On your turn, you may play a card to your palette. Afterwords, you may discard a card to change the rule if doing so will cause you to be winning.

or

Scenario B: Do either or both of these two actions in any order on your turn: (1) Play a card to your palette. (2) Discard a card to change the rule; you may not do this if by the end of your turn you would not be winning.
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Chris Cieslik
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You may do it in either order, but you must be immediately winning when you discard, before your other play.
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SJ S
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angelkurisu wrote:
We are thinking: "If you discard a card that is higher than the quantity of cards in your palette, draw a card."
YAY! I love this idea. I am among those who didn't care for the original restriction. This sounds fun! plus it means more cards for more sneaky plays. Can't wait to try it out. Thanks for listening to everyone's feedback!!
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Martin G
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angelkurisu wrote:
You may do it in either order, but you must be immediately winning when you discard, before your other play.


We've been (inadvertently) playing without that restriction - just checking that you're winning at the end of your full turn. It seems to work fine, but I'd like to try out this version too.
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Rick Scholes
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angelkurisu wrote:
You may do it in either order, but you must be immediately winning when you discard, before your other play.


I must be missing something. I thought I'd read all the RED threads and have the current rule set. But . . . Why does it make a difference which card you play first if you are winning at the end of your turn?

There isn't any way that I see in the rules for the active player or anyone else to intervene before the second card is played and the first card could not be played unless the player would be winning at the end of the turn.

Thanks,

Rick
 
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Anthony C
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bankrupt wrote:
angelkurisu wrote:
You may do it in either order, but you must be immediately winning when you discard, before your other play.


I must be missing something. I thought I'd read all the RED threads and have the current rule set. But . . . Why does it make a difference which card you play first if you are winning at the end of your turn?

There isn't any way that I see in the rules for the active player or anyone else to intervene before the second card is played and the first card could not be played unless the player would be winning at the end of the turn.

Thanks,

Rick


I'm assuming The rules are to prevent you from changing the game to a different color and then hoping to draw a card (by drawing a new card) that will allow you to be winning. If you didn't draw a card that helped, then you've just changed the game without actually winning which is against the rules.
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James Nathan
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bankrupt wrote:

I must be missing something. I thought I'd read all the RED threads and have the current rule set. But . . . Why does it make a difference which card you play first if you are winning at the end of your turn?


Because of the now-possibly-old rule of "You cannot discard a card unless it is at least as high as the number of cards in your palette". Sometimes I needed to both play and discard to be winning, but, due to that rule, I had to do the discarding first.

If I have 2 cards in my palette and need to discard a 2 and play some other card, let's say a 6, in order to be winning, I'm not allowed, under advanced rules, to play the 6 and then discard the 2 (since 2 is not at least as high as 3). To be winning, I would have to discard the 2, then play the 6, then check to see if I'm winning; unfortunately, discard and check-to-see-if-you're-winning are a unified step that can't be broken.
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Josh C.
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Chris, I've tried this rule and like it a lot. I like the increased flexibility and the option it gives you to mitigate the problems of what you might be able to see will be a bad hand for you in the near future. Thanks for the change (although it makes the rules cards a bit confusing (with the rule relating to 7s and mandatory discards)).

angelkurisu wrote:
Hello! We've been gathering a lot of feedback on Red, and we like listening to feedback, because it makes for a better game. We're considering the following change to Advanced Red:

Instead of: "You cannot discard a card unless it is at least as high as the number of cards in your palette"

We are thinking: "If you discard a card that is higher than the quantity of cards in your palette, draw a card."

The goal with the rule was to both make running out of cards less random/less likely, and also to make the choice of which order to play things more interesting -- not always throwing your lowest cards away to change a rule and playing your highest ones. We think this might accomplish the same goals, but with a little less frustration and more fun!

The important existing rule to emphasize here is that you cannot discard a card unless it makes you win (so you can't discard a high card in the hope of getting a card to play).

Edit: Fixed to > instead of >=
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SJ S
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Hi Chris - Sorry for the delay in posting back. We tried this out and really enjoyed it very much! I find that it gives more flexibility and possibility for your hand. I agree with Josh that it can especially be helpful when you've have a bad draw and need to grab another card to stay alive.
Using the 7's mandatory discard rule, we have been drawing a card if the value is higher than the # of cards in my palette. I hope this is what is intended because I like it!!
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Chris Cieslik
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Yes -- this will be the rule in the production version. Testing was all very positive!

The other change is to formalize that you play to palette and then discard to canvas(new name for the discard / rules pile).

Will post the full rulebook once home from the beach!
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Will Plante
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I've really been enjoying my plays of this game, and I really appreciate that you are continuing to refine the game.
I will be playing with this new advanced rule on my next play, I thought the other rule was too restrictive.

Cheers and good luck with the game!

Edit: Played with the new rule and it is fantastic.
It adds even more depth to a very easy to teach game.
 
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Tim Bueschel
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We did not play with the original rule as it sounded too limiting.

Next time we play I am going to try out the new rule. Give you more options at the beginning of the game. But with this rule you may want to change the wining point conditions as you may have more cards in your winning palette.
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Martin G
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prrt949 wrote:
We did not play with the original rule as it sounded too limiting.

Next time we play I am going to try out the new rule. Give you more options at the beginning of the game. But with this rule you may want to change the wining point conditions as you may have more cards in your winning palette.


Agree. In our game, the first hand was won with 25 points, and 4p is first to 30!
 
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Tom Dengler
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This came up when playing optional actions as well as new rule...

Suppose you play a 7 and now have 5 cards in your palette just before you discard. Would you need to discard a 5 (one more than 4 since leaving 4) or a 6 (one more than 5 just before the discard) from your palette in order to draw a card?

 
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Chris Cieslik
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Evaluate your palette after discarding the card.
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mfl134
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angelkurisu wrote:
Evaluate your palette after discarding the card.


So if I have 4 cards in my palette, I play a 7 bringing me to 5 cards, then I move a 5 from my palette, I draw a card?
 
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Chris Cieslik
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Correct!
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mfl134
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angelkurisu wrote:
Correct!


but what if I have a meaningless piece of paper in front of me that says "spy" or "werewolf"?
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Chris Cieslik
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According to my spreadsheet, that means you lose on the spot!
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mfl134
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angelkurisu wrote:
According to my spreadsheet, that means you lose on the spot!


I play my Extra Life card.
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Lee Fisher
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mfl134 wrote:
angelkurisu wrote:
According to my spreadsheet, that means you lose on the spot!


I play my Extra Life card.


Clearly you need the Banana card to win.
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Bryan Doughty
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lfisher wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
angelkurisu wrote:
According to my spreadsheet, that means you lose on the spot!


I play my Extra Life card.


Clearly you need the Banana card to win.


I think you may have werewolves confused with zombies.
 
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Rafał Kruczek
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angelkurisu wrote:
Yes -- this will be the rule in the production version. Testing was all very positive!

The other change is to formalize that you play to palette and then discard to canvas(new name for the discard / rules pile).

Will post the full rulebook once home from the beach!

Hi. Any progress on the new rulebook?
 
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mfl134
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rafal100 wrote:
angelkurisu wrote:
Yes -- this will be the rule in the production version. Testing was all very positive!

The other change is to formalize that you play to palette and then discard to canvas(new name for the discard / rules pile).

Will post the full rulebook once home from the beach!

Hi. Any progress on the new rulebook?


Pretty sure it was posted on Friday.

http://asmadigames.com/Red7Rules.pdf
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