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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Tearing NEH Down rss

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Grish Noren
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I'm trying to break this deck down and find something to combat it, several of you have probably seen or even played against me lately on OCTGN. I'm actively seeking opponents playing variants of NEH fast advance and I'm gaining a better understanding of how strong this deck is and in how many ways everytime I lose to it.

I still stand by my position that it's beatable. I've beaten it several times, but it's got a lot going for it. So here are some thoughts on the archetype.

1) Spending your money on trashing assets like pad & marked might help keep the corp poor enough that they slow down, but I haven't been able to reliably set up while trying to take down that asset economy. 9 credits a big investment (one pad & one marked); I figure this would be easier if I were running Imp or something like it, but I'm not because so far I've focused on multi access.

2) Breaking their ice isn't likely to be cheap. Sure, wraparound & quandary are only going to cost you 1 to get through, but eli is a pain in the ass. Up until this point I've been holding atman for grim, but I'm making the switch from mimic to Ninja. Ninja can take care of roto just fine (the more common program destruction card), but it'll also handle grim so that I don't have to spend two slots worrying about it. That should free atman up for the 4 strength slot, which is often the most valuable due to eli & lotus field.

3) There is no point in the game that you can leave a san-san on the table. I used to stop caring about them once the corp got to 5 points, but they enable fast track and 4/2 wins; you can't allow that. So your economy has to be strong enough to deal with a 5 cost trash, or you need to be running alternatives like imp or scrubber or wizard. I'll note that I tried out paricia, but then realized it wouldn't handle upgrades and got rid of the card; not worth it.

4) Having cards that assist running and gaining money at the same time are good because you need to set up quickly. For this reason I actually value ice analyzer; I'm also a big fan of dirty laundry. Given the prevalence of remotes, bank job has let me absorb the hit of needing to trash a San San and it does even better with dirty laundry if you can pull the combo off. The fact is you need money. Lots of it and it's gotta come as free and quick as possible because servers are going to cost 4-6 to run pretty quickly if the ice is stacked by a capable player. Opus would normally be enough if you could just focus and hammer one server, but you can't ignore remotes due to san san, so this tends to be a good card to have, but not the savior it used to be.

5) You need to stay away from high value resources. Resources aren't safe against NBN. Pro-Co will be blown up 75% of the time that you play it. Daily casts could get blown up. Liberated accounts will also get blown up. Kati, of course, will get blown up after she sucks up 3 clicks of yours or so. Basically, (aside from daily, imo), unless you have really good reason, you should probably stay away from high value resources. That or play fall guy & the source. I still have to personally try that one.

6) NAPD, I hear that you shouldn't steal these, but if your economy is humming, I don't think you can afford not to. Leaving it in their hand just means that they'll score it as their last point.

7) R&D digging. This'll often get you 4-6 points over the course of a game. I try to make my digs as potent as possible, ie, not running without multi access; same on HQ. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, but I don't get blown out as hard, which to me sounds like improvement. Getting past 5 points should be considered a minor victory. It may not be winning, but it means you're on the right track with an idea, that you were able to pressure. I prefer R&D interface to maker's eye because I know I'm going to need to do it more than I could possibly draw them.

8) HQ accesses. Gotta be multi or it doesn't seem to be worth it. I've tried both legwork and hq interface. On this point I'm stuck. There have been games where interface is too expensive in terms of clicks & money, but there have been games where I've wanted that repeated access. NBN has to play balsier once you drop the interface. They'll remain calm if you only drop one legwork.

9) I don't think you can rely on siphon. There are too many rezzable assets that get in the way. And they only need about 3 or 4 credits on average, which drip will often give them back by mid game.

I'll be adding more to this as I think about it. But for now I'll leave you with a geek list dedicated to decks I'm trying out to hate on NEH. I've only got one up there now, but I'll post more as/if I have time.

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/177945/android-netrunner-d...
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Palpster
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I've added 2x Paricia (yes, that is a card, it was in C&C) in my Kate deck recently. Mostly because a lot of decks these days have asset economy. It doesn't help against SanSan, obviously, but against HB and NEH economy it saves a lot of creds over a game. Is it worth it....I don't know yet, since I haven't had that much time to test it. Anyone else tried this approach?
 
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John Smith
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I have had significant success with noise virus mill. Alternatively if your strategy is to trash their assets run whizzard with imp.
 
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Lech Karol Pawłaszek
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Palpster wrote:
I've added 2x Paricia (yes, that is a card, it was in C&C) in my Kate deck recently. Mostly because a lot of decks these days have asset economy. It doesn't help against SanSan, obviously, but against HB and NEH economy it saves a lot of creds over a game. Is it worth it....I don't know yet, since I haven't had that much time to test it. Anyone else tried this approach?


Paricia still eats MU. There is Scrubber (which is a great splash in Criminal) - 1 inf, can trash upgrades as well and is searchable via Hostage. OTOH it costs 2 credits more.
 
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Ber -
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Interesting list, and sounds about right to me.

One thought - have you experimented with Lamprey yet? With that out, single HQ accesses might become quite a pain for them. And getting them to purge would be quite the victory.
 
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Steve Prahl
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as an aside, I talked my wife into playing netrunner with me, and she wanted to learn corp. (she had already learned runner with mixed results) wouldn't you know it the only corp deck I had was NEHFA, and even someone with only a modicum of netrunner knowledge only took 1 game to figure it out, and then crushed me...well to make a long story longer, now I have to figure out how to beat NEHFA.
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Weilong Seow
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I'm just wondering if there's even a point to trashing the economy cards of NEH. Would it be better to focus on trashing Fast Track, Biotic Labour, SanSan City Grid and Jackson Howard while maintaining an R&D lock? So that might involve using Imps, or multiaccess + Demolition Runs. Let them have the money, not like they have that much to spend it on.

*edit*
Added Jackson to the list of must trash.
 
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Eff Eff
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It might be pragmatic to go after Fast Track/Biotic/Sansan/Jackson first and foremost, but letting the deck hold on to too much money feels like it might come back to haunt me.

It seems very realistic that Edward Kim and Itinerant Protesters are both attempts to deliberately hose NEHFA? Granted, in the latter case, it just means swapping out Grim for something else, but maybe there is a viable Anarch Bad Pub deck that just lays it on?

I will admit that I've not yet played against a serious NEHFA deck, I did have a lot of fun with Nerve Agent/Imp and Nerve Agent/Demo Run against the older varieties. The NEH variety just seems to make Whizzard and Scrubber and Imp even more playable, I think. I'd also like to try Noise Virus Mill against it, and the irony of Noise Virus Mill being a primary way to combat a "degenerate" NBN strategy is not lost on me.
 
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Caught in a mechanism
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gumOnShoe wrote:
I'm trying to break this deck down and find something to combat it

Modest contribution:

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William Turner
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Not in my experience fameros. You're dealing with a deck that has 3 Jacksons, Jacksons it sees more often with its draw and that you are less likely to know are out because they have several cards that stay unrezzed.

As NEH I've had a few people try to Keyhole me. I don't give up free accesses to R&D so it's never more than a couple hits at a time. Basically what happens is they spend three turns of resources forcing through a couple keyholes which I counter at no cost with Jackson. This puts me so far ahead that I can usually win the game. The Keyhole players also stop checking remotes because their plan is so resource intensive which doesn't end well against NEH.

Desperado is among the best cards against NEH. Doppleganger is almost as good, run 2 of those and 1 Desperado if you've only got one core set. You can't let checking a remote simply drain a click from you as a runner. John Masanori's value has gone up but surprisingly I think Datasucker's has gone down (to simply 'great'). The ice isn't particularly big in NEH and many of your runs aren't on centrals. Maybe El-Ad can comment on this, he discarded a datasucker early in one game against NEH at nationals.

Whizzard might be ok but you can often manipulate them. They have it in their heads that they are the lords of remote checking and are going to go after every one of them. For example they'll usually trash an unrezzed Marked Accounts first turn. They're usually not as rich so this can get them in trouble, especially if they trash two remotes in a turn. One strategy I have is to play assets in bursts, they'll check the Jackson then the Sansan and lose 5. Or you can throw a piece of ice like pop-up window on a server that you keep filling with asset economy and counter their ID as they drain their credits.

Sneakdoor has a lot of promise. If they're not allowed to simply put 3 deep ice on HQ and R&D you can really stretch them thin.

Lots of good cards in Criminal and I think many people are looking at Gabe and Tenma to avoid the turn 1 sweeps week on Andy. I'm actually thinking about trying out a Silhouette deck which lets check remotes with her expose while maintaining central pressure. It also concentrates the best anti NEH cards with a smaller deck side... just need to find out what those are.
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Cees de Boer
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Berr wrote:
Interesting list, and sounds about right to me.

One thought - have you experimented with Lamprey yet? With that out, single HQ accesses might become quite a pain for them. And getting them to purge would be quite the victory.


I've more or less lucked into a deck that I think has a favorable winrate against NEH in octgn. Don't consider myself a top tier player. I wanted to test lamprey and it's in that deck one of the key cards in the matchup with NEH (along with imp and parasite)

I have a suspicion why it works, but as said, I lucked into it, it wasn't the "brilliant counter plan". I think a downside to NEH's drawing is that if it's poor (0-1 creds), playing it's economy will make it draw more cards as well and most cards cost money.

Another issue for NEH is that assets have an initial investment. If it's down in the economy struggle, it's hard to dig out again with assets. If the runner doesn't have to care about it's money and can spend it freely to take out anything rezzed, all that's left to dig itself out of the hole are 3x hedge fun and 3x sweeps week. Depending on build, maybe popups.

Base NBN and TWIY should be harder nuts to crack for cred denial anarchs, as I feel assets become a dead draw in some boardstates, and those decks tended to carry stuff like caduceus and sometimes green levels in TWIY?

Apart from that, FA as a strategy (apart from the astrotrain) is expensive. Rezzing sansan for 5 or playing a biotic for 4 is quite a cost. It's comparatively safe, but it's not efficient.
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Caught in a mechanism
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Fjord wrote:
Not in my experience fameros. You're dealing with a deck that has 3 Jacksons, Jacksons it sees more often with its draw and that you are less likely to know are out because they have several cards that stay unrezzed.

As NEH I've had a few people try to Keyhole me. I don't give up free accesses to R&D so it's never more than a couple hits at a time. Basically what happens is they spend three turns of resources forcing through a couple keyholes which I counter at no cost with Jackson. This puts me so far ahead that I can usually win the game. The Keyhole players also stop checking remotes because their plan is so resource intensive which doesn't end well against NEH.

Desperado is among the best cards against NEH. Doppleganger is almost as good, run 2 of those and 1 Desperado if you've only got one core set. You can't let checking a remote simply drain a click from you as a runner. John Masanori's value has gone up but surprisingly I think Datasucker's has gone down (to simply 'great'). The ice isn't particularly big in NEH and many of your runs aren't on centrals. Maybe El-Ad can comment on this, he discarded a datasucker early in one game against NEH at nationals.

Whizzard might be ok but you can often manipulate them. They have it in their heads that they are the lords of remote checking and are going to go after every one of them. For example they'll usually trash an unrezzed Marked Accounts first turn. They're usually not as rich so this can get them in trouble, especially if they trash two remotes in a turn. One strategy I have is to play assets in bursts, they'll check the Jackson then the Sansan and lose 5. Or you can throw a piece of ice like pop-up window on a server that you keep filling with asset economy and counter their ID as they drain their credits.

Sneakdoor has a lot of promise. If they're not allowed to simply put 3 deep ice on HQ and R&D you can really stretch them thin.

Lots of good card in Criminal and I think many people are looking at Gabe and Tenma to avoid the turn 1 sweeps week on Andy. I'm actually thinking about trying out a Silhouette deck which lets check remotes with her expose while maintaining central pressure. It also concentrates the best anti NEH cards with a smaller deck side... just need to find out what those are.

Many good ideas, thanks for sharing.

I think that right now Keyhole is the best Anarch card in print, but you have to build around it (breakers, econ, MU). I've had some success in using it against NBN FA, casual play, on- and offline. Some players may have a restrictive concept of its utility: "Keyhole for agendas and run archives last click." Its true power lies in selectively milling the Corp according to the game state. No Keyhole run is wasted. As for Jacksons, they are sometimes food for the mill too.
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Michele Lupo
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If i wanted to metagame today against NEH FA what i'd do is play a fairly standard Noise and rely heavily on Imp (possibly with recursion) and Demolition Run. I'd spend influence on 2 Clone Chips, 2 Sahasrara, 3 Cache, one Chakana and one Deep Thought.

The gameplan would depend a lot on the ice the corp plays. Probe both HQ and R&D and target whichever is iced more lightly, trying to trash the key operations and Jackson and to parasite ice. Once the server is open go for a Lamprey/Nerve Agend/Medium. If the Ice is too much for you instead try to go for a Haemorrage win by installing 2 of them, running twice and discarding two cards per turn until archives are ripe.
 
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Andrew Reynolds
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Semi new to the netrunner world, but I'm play testing a Whizzard deck with doppelgänger. It also has keyhole and imps and hemorages, basically just trying to break any combo I come up against by trashing. I like doppelgänger with wyldside as I feel like I'm getting my click back, and I use that free run to run a remote or HQ for my whizzard trash on top of keyholing. I also have data link reversal, in case I start to get locked out of my keyhole runs. Needs more play testing, but I think I'm going to like it.

(Note: haven't played against NEH yet)
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Ber -
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Fjord wrote:
Whizzard might be ok but you can often manipulate them. They have it in their heads that they are the lords of remote checking and are going to go after every one of them. For example they'll usually trash an unrezzed Marked Accounts first turn. They're usually not as rich so this can get them in trouble, especially if they trash two remotes in a turn. One strategy I have is to play assets in bursts, they'll check the Jackson then the Sansan and lose 5. Or you can throw a piece of ice like pop-up window on a server that you keep filling with asset economy and counter their ID as they drain their credits.


Sometimes I think Whizzard's biggest problem is he is played by rookie players. (OK, also he is also very meta dependent, but NBN NEH is a meta he is GOOD against!)

You should see how Whizzard is when played against NBN by someone more skilled. I built a Whizzard deck designed for speed and tried it against an NBN NEH FA (piloted by a good player too), and absolutely shredded it. (Handily beat Jinteki RP as well in another game, but I'm not looking forward to taking on Cerebral Imaging with Whizzard).

I know what you mean about rookies thinking those recurring credits are for remotes, but the thing is they're great for central accesses too. Hit a central first, and if you don't find something you want to trash there, THEN go use Whizzard's credits to trash that expensive econ asset in a remote.
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Grish Noren
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Berr wrote:
Interesting list, and sounds about right to me.

One thought - have you experimented with Lamprey yet? With that out, single HQ accesses might become quite a pain for them. And getting them to purge would be quite the victory.


Not yet, hopefully I'll get around to it. I've heard from several angles that noise might be the right way to go. Thing is I've always been a better shaper pilot so I'll have to learn how to run as noise effectively while playing against the best corp deck. It's a challenge I probably should take on, but I think the variance of playing noise against a low variance fast consistant corp deck is going to make me sad more often that it probably should.

(I don't think Lamprey is worth it btw if you can't control their remotes too for the same reason that siphon wouldn't be worth it over the long run, I'd think you'd need doppleganger to make that at all effective and strong multi access. Lamprey is probably icing at that point.)
 
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Cees de Boer
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lamprey doesn't need much to be effective. Don't try to combo it, it's really overkill. All you need is relatively easy access and that's something anarch can do.
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Jesse M
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gumOnShoe wrote:
I'm trying to break this deck down and find something to combat it, several of you have probably seen or even played against me lately on OCTGN. I'm actively seeking opponents playing variants of NEH fast advance and I'm gaining a better understanding of how strong this deck is and in how many ways everytime I lose to it.

I still stand by my position that it's beatable. I've beaten it several times, but it's got a lot going for it. So here are some thoughts on the archetype.

1) Spending your money on trashing assets like pad & marked might help keep the corp poor enough that they slow down, but I haven't been able to reliably set up while trying to take down that asset economy. 9 credits a big investment (one pad & one marked); I figure this would be easier if I were running Imp or something like it, but I'm not because so far I've focused on multi access.

This is tricky. Trashing assets can also be a huge tempo hit for you, so it's not always a good idea. If you feel you will need to start spending money on accesses soon, or getting some breakers out I wouldn't bother with trashing assets and instead focus on getting your rig going so you can continual pressure with cheap accesses.

gumOnShoe wrote:

2) Breaking their ice isn't likely to be cheap. Sure, wraparound & quandary are only going to cost you 1 to get through, but eli is a pain in the ass. Up until this point I've been holding atman for grim, but I'm making the switch from mimic to Ninja. Ninja can take care of roto just fine (the more common program destruction card), but it'll also handle grim so that I don't have to spend two slots worrying about it. That should free atman up for the 4 strength slot, which is often the most valuable due to eli & lotus field.

Datasucker works well on Eli and without much else to spend datasucker tokens on it's usually not so bad to handle. If they rez a grim that's even better for getting through Eli cheaply.

gumOnShoe wrote:

3) There is no point in the game that you can leave a san-san on the table. I used to stop caring about them once the corp got to 5 points, but they enable fast track and 4/2 wins; you can't allow that. So your economy has to be strong enough to deal with a 5 cost trash, or you need to be running alternatives like imp or scrubber or wizard. I'll note that I tried out paricia, but then realized it wouldn't handle upgrades and got rid of the card; not worth it.

I agree with this more so than any other NBN build. You have to trash SanSan, even if you don't trash asset econ right away, you have to kill the SanSan.

gumOnShoe wrote:

4) Having cards that assist running and gaining money at the same time are good because you need to set up quickly. For this reason I actually value ice analyzer; I'm also a big fan of dirty laundry. Given the prevalence of remotes, bank job has let me absorb the hit of needing to trash a San San and it does even better with dirty laundry if you can pull the combo off. The fact is you need money. Lots of it and it's gotta come as free and quick as possible because servers are going to cost 4-6 to run pretty quickly if the ice is stacked by a capable player. Opus would normally be enough if you could just focus and hammer one server, but you can't ignore remotes due to san san, so this tends to be a good card to have, but not the savior it used to be.

BankJob is a nice call, especially in Gabe with Desperado. And security testing in Andy obviously.

gumOnShoe wrote:

5) You need to stay away from high value resources. Resources aren't safe against NBN. Pro-Co will be blown up 75% of the time that you play it. Daily casts could get blown up. Liberated accounts will also get blown up. Kati, of course, will get blown up after she sucks up 3 clicks of yours or so. Basically, (aside from daily, imo), unless you have really good reason, you should probably stay away from high value resources. That or play fall guy & the source. I still have to personally try that one.

You should be able to time Daily Casts correctly to avoid problems. If you think they have a SanSan or protected breaking news on the table don't play it. Otherwise you're pretty safe. Killing a Daily Casts after you've pulled two off of it is not the end of the world for NEH. I'd much prefer that than to scoring an Astro (with fast track instead of the trashing click).

gumOnShoe wrote:

6) NAPD, I hear that you shouldn't steal these, but if your economy is humming, I don't think you can afford not to. Leaving it in their hand just means that they'll score it as their last point.

It'll probably be more expensive to steal later so why not?

gumOnShoe wrote:

7) R&D digging. This'll often get you 4-6 points over the course of a game. I try to make my digs as potent as possible, ie, not running without multi access; same on HQ. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, but I don't get blown out as hard, which to me sounds like improvement. Getting past 5 points should be considered a minor victory. It may not be winning, but it means you're on the right track with an idea, that you were able to pressure. I prefer R&D interface to maker's eye because I know I'm going to need to do it more than I could possibly draw them.

RDI is expensive and they can blow past RnD lock. I'm not sure what the best answer is for multi-access on RnD.

gumOnShoe wrote:

8) HQ accesses. Gotta be multi or it doesn't seem to be worth it. I've tried both legwork and hq interface. On this point I'm stuck. There have been games where interface is too expensive in terms of clicks & money, but there have been games where I've wanted that repeated access. NBN has to play balsier once you drop the interface. They'll remain calm if you only drop one legwork.

HQI is way too expensive. I think being able to make profitable or free HQ runs is the best way to go because it forces NEH to either race you or dig for defense. Gabe is best at this.

gumOnShoe wrote:

9) I don't think you can rely on siphon. There are too many rezzable assets that get in the way. And they only need about 3 or 4 credits on average, which drip will often give them back by mid game.

Just the threat of Siphon that forces them to defend is good enough.

I'm doing just fine vs NEH with Parasite Gabe. He's probably the fastest runner and can sustain his economy simply through running better than any other ID. Since most NEH is running Biotic, Fast Track, and Asset econ that means they have less room for ice so it's going to be hard for them to keep you out of all three centrals. This makes it relatively easy to score early. Your biggest risk to losing is not really getting locked out but getting beat through fast track/biotic racing you.

I think it helps to play the game like NEH is on game point the entire time and focus on running and accessing as much as possible. Don't install cards you don't see an immediate need for. For example, if you are wondering what to do on click 4, don't just install a datasucker or same old thing you don't need right way. Draw a card instead so you have more options to keep the runs going and hopefully force NEH to try and defend rather than scoring.
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Zeb
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Bank Job is a great tech against NEH in my experience. I'm always scared of Sneakdoor when playing NEH for what's that worth.
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Kevin D.
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I was browsing some lists looking for ideas and came back to the Silhouette list from Chicago earlier this year. One card that I basically forgot existed was Notoriety. That card seems very good against NBN because I always get to 5 or 6 points and then fail to find an agenda. Notoriety gives you control of the late game.

Even if the Silhouette deck isn't the answer(3 Quest Completed seems like overkill in this meta) Notoriety is definitely something to consider.
 
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Matt
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Other than what's already been added (though I haven't read the whole thread yet) have you thought about AI?

My local meta has a single NEH deck at the moment that's spamming cheap gearchecks fast and scoring out behind that (don't klnow if the wider meta is doing that though). My Overmind deck went to town on it (comparatively; I only lost to a HQ Wraparound because for some reason I refused to fetch my Inti).

Looking at what you're saying (but not your Geeklist) though, you're running Shaper?
 
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Steven Tu
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Zebadiah wrote:
Bank Job is a great tech against NEH in my experience. I'm always scared of Sneakdoor when playing NEH for what's that worth.


Bank Job is just an anti asset thing - and it only hits one. It doesn't really profit you much at all if you're going to trash the asset. And if you DON'T trash the assets then you're gonna give them creds.

spend 1 click + 1 cred + 1 run (neutral if desperado) = +7 creds, trashing a 5 you sit at +2. Trashing a 4 +3. It's decent, but if you're teching against NEH you'll need a bit more pow than that... Scrubber or Whizzard or even Paricia.
 
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Yi Sheng Siow
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Tuism wrote:
Zebadiah wrote:
Bank Job is a great tech against NEH in my experience. I'm always scared of Sneakdoor when playing NEH for what's that worth.


Bank Job is just an anti asset thing - and it only hits one. It doesn't really profit you much at all if you're going to trash the asset. And if you DON'T trash the assets then you're gonna give them creds.

spend 1 click + 1 cred + 1 run (neutral if desperado) = +7 creds, trashing a 5 you sit at +2. Trashing a 4 +3. It's decent, but if you're teching against NEH you'll need a bit more pow than that... Scrubber or Whizzard or even Paricia.


Often, the idea is to bank job the naked assets to get money to hit centrals.
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Steven Tu
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siowy wrote:
Tuism wrote:
Zebadiah wrote:
Bank Job is a great tech against NEH in my experience. I'm always scared of Sneakdoor when playing NEH for what's that worth.


Bank Job is just an anti asset thing - and it only hits one. It doesn't really profit you much at all if you're going to trash the asset. And if you DON'T trash the assets then you're gonna give them creds.

spend 1 click + 1 cred + 1 run (neutral if desperado) = +7 creds, trashing a 5 you sit at +2. Trashing a 4 +3. It's decent, but if you're teching against NEH you'll need a bit more pow than that... Scrubber or Whizzard or even Paricia.


Often, the idea is to bank job the naked assets to get money to hit centrals.


Yeah I know, just saying that if you're doing that you're not trashing assets, and not trashing assets is not a great idea (though probably not the worst against NEH. It depends on the gamestate)
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Cees de Boer
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flinter wrote:
Berr wrote:
Interesting list, and sounds about right to me.

One thought - have you experimented with Lamprey yet? With that out, single HQ accesses might become quite a pain for them. And getting them to purge would be quite the victory.


I've more or less lucked into a deck that I think has a favorable winrate against NEH in octgn. Don't consider myself a top tier player. I wanted to test lamprey and it's in that deck one of the key cards in the matchup with NEH (along with imp and parasite)

I have a suspicion why it works, but as said, I lucked into it, it wasn't the "brilliant counter plan". I think a downside to NEH's drawing is that if it's poor (0-1 creds), playing it's economy will make it draw more cards as well and most cards cost money.

Another issue for NEH is that assets have an initial investment. If it's down in the economy struggle, it's hard to dig out again with assets. If the runner doesn't have to care about it's money and can spend it freely to take out anything rezzed, all that's left to dig itself out of the hole are 3x hedge fun and 3x sweeps week. Depending on build, maybe popups.

Base NBN and TWIY should be harder nuts to crack for cred denial anarchs, as I feel assets become a dead draw in some boardstates, and those decks tended to carry stuff like caduceus and sometimes green levels in TWIY?

Apart from that, FA as a strategy (apart from the astrotrain) is expensive. Rezzing sansan for 5 or playing a biotic for 4 is quite a cost. It's comparatively safe, but it's not efficient.


ok, with db0's data out, went to check if I wasn't mad here. In fairness, not the most games so variance is an issue, only ~25. I found a 74% winrate, which is significantly higher than my average runner winrate.

So maybe there is some truth in my post above and there's one answer to NEH in cred denial noise/anarch.
 
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